Thanks J-Mo.

Many moons ago I was waffling about the cycle of 4ths as I was want to do and J-Mo mentioned he preferred the cycle of alternating minor and major thirds.

Needless to say it drew a blank with me at the time and I dismissed it as the ramblings of a deranged person who liked the Harmonic Minor more than the Melodic Minor.

How wrong I was.

It hit me today what he meant. I've been looking for a way to learn stuff in all keys without getting sucked into systemizing it.

I've gone to great lengths with this, firstly learning patterns starting from the high E so I go through all the distortions of a pattern (around the B string) before getting into the smooth waters of patterns starting on E or A.

But when I stop learning the same key all over the place what's the next key I should check out? Cycle of 5th or Cycle of 4ths simply sees me mentally transposing across strings and I'm back learning a pattern again... which I'm keen to avoid.

Since a minor third + major third is a perfect 5th the transposition is disrupted (for now) as I can learn the keys for the current exercise thusly:

C Eb G Bb D F A C E G B D F# A C# E G# B D#

which has some dupes in it, well anyway it helps me for now and I was startled how a chance comment several years ago came back :)

I have no idea what any of that post means.

This might explain why I am trapped in pentatonic pergatory.

Im sure he's looking down and responding in his own inimitable way..............with both fingers ;)

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Originally Posted by bertie

Im sure he's looking down and responding in his own inimitable way..............with both fingers ;)

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yup, tongue in the middle too ;) and saying 'arrrlalalalalalala' :D

Dave, the results are probably a lot less melodic ;)

I'm learning diatonic triads on three strings atm ( so CEG, DFA, EGB, FAC, GBD, ACE, BDF) also inversions so (root inversion CEG, 1st inversion EGC, 2nd inversion GCE) and I'm really wary (given my past tendencies) to simplify stuff to patterns, not necessarily equations but just mental notes like that's the same thing 4 frets up. The shifting pattern challenges that and the pattern completes a circle of all the notes so I get all keys :)

Any chord sequence that is not the cycle of 4ths can hold that as an advantage. Hate the cycle of 4ths, I really do.

I like going up a major third in major keys (both major chords), but the great cycle to play with is in minors, where you go down a minor third but keep playing minor chords all the time, that can sound very unnerving, if a little "Alton Towers" music-ey. Eg Am, Fm, Dm.

I miss J-Mo :(

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Originally Posted by MALAM

I miss J-Mo :(

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+masses :-(

I had another crack at this the other day and bloody hell it's interesting.

take a cycle of fifths: C G D A E B F# Db Ab Eb Bb F

it can be drawn on a circle like a clock, C A F# Eb (cafe) as 12,3,6,9 o'clock.

NOW. add the other notes on the cycle.

then you can create an alternating cycle of major and minor thirds by creating a second cycle inside the first offset so it's nodes are half way between the primary cycle.

So it reads like this clockwise:

C E G B D F# A C# E G# BD# F# A# Db F Ab C Eb G Bb D F A C

Start on any black note and read the next four notes = major7th chord
Start on any grey note and read the next four notes = minor 7th chord

This is useful if you're using a guitar which is tuned in a cycle of 4ths with a major third thrown in for fun - becase we've turned the times tables in base 12 into a phase occuring in a a simple repeated pattern: pick a note, the previous four black notes (skip two grey notes) count the two grey notes - gives the configuration of any fret.

The real fun starts when you label the black and the grey as primary cycle and secondary cycle then add an inner ring for tertiary and quarternary cycles and you can describe diminished and dominant chords too. But that's for another time, together with how the offset of key signatures creates a pattern describing melodic and harmonic minor modes and relates them to sonically similar major modes :)

Incredibly enough, I was just watching this today. He came off chuntering about his trem arm and how it kept flopping......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFi8XJNj-mk

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Originally Posted by DLM

+masses :-(

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:(