Is Windows 8 the biggest news in touch apps?

[ANeutron]

They're just motherboards - "logic boards" is an appleese throwback to the 80s.

I run a 1,1 mac pro at home and have been through the whole gamut of OSX updates to date since 2006 with no problems at all. You're arguing that the mac is inherently as unstable as a PC* on the experience of one guy who by your admission has hardware problems...

*First - define a PC...

[tehLORD]

They're just motherboards - "logic boards" is an appleese throwback to the 80s.

I run a 1,1 mac pro at home and have been through the whole gamut of OSX updates to date since 2006 with no problems at all. You're arguing that the mac is inherently as unstable as a PC* on the experience of one guy who by your admission has hardware problems...

*First - define a PC...

Actually I know two other people with hardware issues as well, one with a MBP and another who's had an iMac in for repair several times (two hard drive fails and some screen issues). There was also problems for a few guys using Logic during the last OS update. The point I'm illustrating is that Mac's aren't bulletproof and they don't 'just work' all the time.

They're probably still statistically more reliable than PC's but so they should be without all the compatibility requirements and the cost in the first place .

I've run self built PCs for more than a decade and had perhaps 3-4 hardware failures, and 2 of those were cheap PSU's going bang so arguably my own fault.

Plus, you define a PC. I couldn't give a toss.

[ANeutron]

My point with picking at the comparisons is that it's silly to even try. You'll hear more about failures than machines that do what they're supposed to, and definitely more when they supposedly have a good reputation; you're also more likely to remember those. And what constitutes a PC is impossible to pin down too - the cheapest of crappy lenovos during Dell's darkest periods to the dizzy heights of top-drawer self-builds by modding experts, cooled by the tears of frightened puppies for an extra 0.2 gigaflops.

The only guy I know who ever bought an Alienware PC had no end of problems with it, but that's not a great sample to build an opinion on.

I agree, they're not bulletproof - but my experience of OSX, as a software engineer of many years, is very much one of "it just works". It may be boring and stupid, but it's never once given me cause to sigh.

[jim_branning]

These guys run huge networked Mac Pro setups in the studio and that's not going to be changing for the foreseeable.

One of them has had two motherboards fail on his out of warranty Mac Pro at home, and I believe they're called something fancy like Logic boards and are $1k a throw. He's also instability with whatever the latest OS is with random crashes. His is a totally dedicated DAW machine, with nothing weird on it at all. Interestingly he also has dual iPad touchscreens for DAW control, although I still prefer physical knobs and faders myself. It's possibly also worth noting that there are plenty of rumours that Apple will be ditching it's Mac Pro line in the not too distant future in favour of infinitely more profitable i products. Where that'll leave the professional community is anyone's guess.

I'm not knocking teh Macs at all, I plan on getting a hugely powerful 27" iMac soon which is plenty for running any kind of home DAW. I really have a Logic itch

so these are professional score writers working in a "big scoring studio in LA", who CAN'T afford to upgrade every 3 years?

complete balls. The mac pro is not a portable machine, so either these pro's belong to the studio facility, or the guys you talk of own that facility, but they are not lugging mac pros to the studio every day that's for sure.

Are you exaggerating when you say "big scoring studio in LA"?

the fact the current mac pro's will be discontinued is irrelevant. How is that in any way out of the ordinary? as all machines die out eventually and are replaced.

The older mac pros for example can't run final cut-x without upgrading the graphics card, but they work fine and will edit HD video all day or do music. Hence they are massively sought after and retain value.

For example, only 2 mac pro on gumtree London (tons of macbook pros tho). One an old 2.66 quad going for 850 GBP!
http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/ap...splay/97304488

the other a current quad model for 1500 quid.
http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/ma...ition/97180710

old mac pros are like gold dust. My quad 2.66 as you see can still raise 850 quid or so s/h value, and my 8-core 2.8 will easily resell now it's 3 years old for almost what i paid.



Perhaps the replacement mobo was faulty on your friend's mac and hence the problems since?

what's the other guy's problem? you only mention one guy's faults and problems and that is with a machine which was repaired. Was it repaired with a warranty by apple? then he takes it back, simple.

the new macs - hmm, maybe they will drop the "pro" legend, but then even the mac mini quad is great for HD video editing, and with thunderbolt disk arrays, you have all the speed you could ever need.

iMac quads replace the mac pros, same or more grunt.

[jim_branning]

...to the dizzy heights of top-drawer self-builds by modding experts, cooled by the tears of frightened puppies for an extra 0.2 gigaflops.

lol, nice.

[tehLORD]

so these are professional score writers working in a "big scoring studio in LA", who CAN'T afford to upgrade every 3 years?

complete balls. The mac pro is not a portable machine, so either these pro's belong to the studio facility, or the guys you talk of own that facility, but they are not lugging mac pros to the studio every day that's for sure.

Are you exaggerating when you say "big scoring studio in LA"?

the fact the current mac pro's will be discontinued is irrelevant. How is that in any way out of the ordinary? as all machines die out eventually and are replaced.
t.

I'm trying to decipher the point of this ramble?

I didn't mention anybody lugging Mac Pros around, and I also didn't mention the (very big) studio replacing, or considering replacing anything anytime soon either. The chap that does a lot of score work AT the studio also has a Mac Pro setup at home that he's swapping out for a PC as he's had technical and software issues.

People talk about anything remotely computer related and you pop in and say 'get a Mac' on the pretext that they are manna from the heavens that are bulletproof and rock solid. That's just not the case. They are probably more reliable than PC's, that's about it.

Also, the fact that Apple may or may not be dropping what they themselves moniker the Pro range is a big deal. Especially so as their showcase professional product 'Logic Pro' appears to be way down on their list of iPriorities.

Like I've said before, both formats have their merits and drawbacks, but let's not try and pretend that one is better than the other.

And yes, I do mean 'very big studio'

[tehLORD]

Guess what.

Another musician pal of mine has his Mac in the shop having the Logic board replaced.

This time in a 'small studio' in Louisiana.

[ANeutron]

*facepalm*

[jim_branning]

Guess what.

Another musician pal of mine has his Mac in the shop having the Logic board replaced.

This time in a 'small studio' in Louisiana.

lol, look, there's little discussion here. So I say "mac" and it instantly creates some discussion.

yes, things break down, that's why pros get a machine with a warranty. It's like having a trade vehicle. You buy it over 3 years, during which time it is warranteed. You trade up every 3 years, trading in the old unit.

pro studios/workplaces with multiple machines use a mac service contract, hence my disbelief in the previous "big score studio" story.

A pro scoring studio (or straight recording studio) cannot afford downtime what with project deadlines and reputation to maintain, and macs offer more chance to maintain up-time

yes i tease my brother for example that for his company they pay someone to add a hard drive or ram etc or extend their network or whatever, cos they use a mac service contract. But that's how it goes with a professional business when the core business is about getting on with the work.

it's a work tool at the end of the day

back in the old studio days every single "engineer" as well as being an audio-engineer was also usually an electronics guy like Dave here is, cos they had to fix and service the mixer modules, multi-track etc. So i s'pose you could say the whole mac thing is an extension of that sort of pro service-covered setup




we're just talking anyway.

[tehLORD]

There's nothing like a cock fight on the internet. It's what keeps me sane.

But sure, of course the big studio (i'll get fucking pictures if you want ) will be keeping the Mac's, and probably have shares in Apple, let alone service contracts.

The score writer was once like you though, sniffy and derisory (ok that's a low blow) about anything not Mac, but his recent experiences over an extended period have left him clicking buy buttons on PC's for his home projects.

See I couldn't give a toss what anybody uses, and will be buying an iMac myself fairly soon as well, but I have many hundreds of friends and contacts via my old label, my website, my Soundcloud and Facebook pages that are in the business of making music so I tend to hear a lot of whining about many things, and recently a lot of it has been about Mac dissatisfaction.

Conversely, I just recommended a different score producing pal of mine to buy a second hand 8 core Mac Pro with multiple SSD's, a 4TB raid array and a 30" Apple cinema display for £1600. I mean what a fucking bargain. If I had the cash there and then I would have snapped that baby up all for myself.

But yeah, the service side of the equation is spot on, but I'm not sure how relevant that is for 99% of home users tracking badly played guitar (it's Friday and i've been doing soundsets all week, it's tedious) into a £50 interface into a DAW they don't really know how to use.