The Thorny subject of Overdrive vs Distortion

[RocknRollDave]

If I stack them, it's generally overdrive into distortion. Two overdrives can sound much too midrangy and nasal, two distortions too boomy and buzzy, and distortion into overdrive often just sounds like a squashed mess. But overdrive into distortion can sound great -

Interesting...I shall try this myself, I've been looking for a better driven sound.
One thing I wanted to ask (and this is a genuine question, not a smart-arse observation) is that you say OD into OD isn't ideal - Now, a lot of us use an OD pedal into an amp with a certain amount of gain already dialled in. Is OD into an overdriven amp (you could call this "OD into OD", if you see what I am getting at) different to one OD pedal into a second OD pedal?

I suspect the difference would be something to do with this other point you make:

If anything I think that the sound of a cranked *big* amp is more closely simulated by distortion-type pedals than overdrive-type ones. A cranked small amp sounds more like an overdrive pedal.

Like I say, not trying to fnd fault in your post, just trying to understand the whole black art of overdrive and distortion better.

[ICBM]

Interesting...I shall try this myself, I've been looking for a better driven sound.
One thing I wanted to ask (and this is a genuine question, not a smart-arse observation) is that you say OD into OD isn't ideal - Now, a lot of us use an OD pedal into an amp with a certain amount of gain already dialled in. Is OD into an overdriven amp (you could call this "OD into OD", if you see what I am getting at) different to one OD pedal into a second OD pedal?

Yes, because it's OD pedal into valve overdrive circuit - even though one was supposedly developed to simulate the other, they're not the same.

It's (say) TS-type circuit into TS-type circuit I don't like - too much of a good thing can make you sick . But it seems to work for some people (eg SRV!).

[monquixote]

Yes, because it's OD pedal into valve overdrive circuit - even though one was supposedly developed to simulate the other, they're not the same.

It's (say) TS-type circuit into TS-type circuit I don't like - too much of a good thing can make you sick . But it seems to work for some people (eg SRV!).

I always think this is the dumb thing about OD pedal marketing.

They always say "Sounds like a cranked wall of valve marshalls" when actually they mean sounds like a band pass filter with a bit of clipping, but it will push your amp in a nice way.

OD pedals and preamp pedals are totally different kettles of fish, but they make out one is the other. It also leaves people wondering why a TS into the clean channel of their SS amp sounds pants.

[showermusings]

I have a two channel amp, so that gives me clean and crunchy. I then use a modded DS-1 for higher gain, then a Joyo Vintage OD (tubescreamer clone) as a low-gain/high volume boost.

[ICBM]

I always think this is the dumb thing about OD pedal marketing.

They always say "Sounds like a cranked wall of valve marshalls" when actually they mean sounds like a band pass filter with a bit of clipping, but it will push your amp in a nice way.

OD pedals and preamp pedals are totally different kettles of fish, but they make out one is the other. It also leaves people wondering why a TS into the clean channel of their SS amp sounds pants.

It always makes me smile when I read people saying that overdrive pedals are called overdrive pedals because they're meant to overdrive your amp, or that a Tube Screamer is called a Tube Screamer because it makes your tubes scream .

Rubbish! I'm old enough to remember the marketing copy for these things when they were first around (early 80s), and there's no doubt that they were meant to simulate - by themselves - the sound of an overdriven valve amp. The fact that they're really quite crap at that, but sound great when used to push a valve amp harder, either with a fair amount of extra dirt or as more of a 'dirty clean boost', is a happy accident.