Any tips on learning how to play over chords
OK I have the caged theory under my finders to a degree, i.e. I can play the shapes and know where to move in terms of which mode I want to play.
Now the application in terms of playing over chord changes I find very hard from an improv point of view. I was wondering if you guys
a) tend to use a more compositional approach and work out solos before hand, i.e. analysing each chord and composing a solo or at least a frame work
b) Or have you trained yourself to "hear" the chord changes and instinctively play notes that don't clash?
I find I try things out find they sound wrong and go back to the old minor pentatonic as it always seems to work.
Any good exercised you can recommend in terms of playing over chord changes?
one of the ways is look at the group of chords that you are going to play over and see what key they are from...so maybe Aminor Dminor and Eminor would be in the key of C because them chords belong to the C chord scale ....but its starting on a A minor so that would seem the homing chord so A aeolian could be used for that...so try and find groups of chords the realate to a scale....
the other way is learn the arps the way i do it is learn the scales in the 5 positions then the arps within them scales ..its then a good idea to play the chord afterwards ...the one nearest to the arp ..say like Dm7 arp in 5th position and the chord there as well.....so really the same way as you play chords you should be able to play arps and for each chord you can see the corresponding arp...i think using the 2 approaches you can cover most bases.
you might find this intresting as well....or is it just me who does...
http://www.musicradar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114698
Last edited by barney.; 17th September 2012 at 05:50 PM.
This has helped me a fair bit, but as Barney says, just try and figure out what key the whole piece is in and home in on that.
One way to start with this is to simply go through a piece of music playing just the Root of each chord just on beat one. Then repeat just playing the 3rd on beat 1, and then go through playing just the 5th, and then the 7th of the chord. If there are 2 chords in a bar, then you've got to play another note on beat 3.
Then you can try going from one chord to the next chord playing the note (Root, 3rd, 5th, 7th) of the second chord which is nearest to the note that you played in the preceding chord.
It's both simple and hard at the same time because you've got to analyse the next chord whilst playing over the previous chord, and keeping in time and knowing when to hit the next beat 1. After that you can start embellishing things, but still always aim to play the Root,or 3rd, or 5th, or 7th on beat 1.
Last edited by rdmf48; 17th September 2012 at 09:33 PM.
this is ok iff your just playing in one key...its a struggle with key changes without knowing what your doing...Originally Posted by stickyfiddle
mmmmmmmm....theoryballs.
No Forbidding Allowed
My band made (another) Xmas song: https://soundcloud.com/polarityman/p...in-vallhalla-2
Get or make a backing track which has suitable chord changes. Play a melody/riff/whatever over the first chord, and land on a target note of the next chord just as the chord changes. By target note I mean any of the notes in the second chord:
- the root note. That's the easy one
- the fifth
- the third
- the seventh or ninth if it's got one
Quite often you'll find that you only have to go up or down by one semi-tone as you move from what you are playing over chord one to your target note. With CAGED under your belt it is relatively easy to picture which the possble target notes are. Gradually your ear will learn which steps work best to you when moving between chords.
One you get the hang of this you can easily use it over any chord sequence
Roland
India '08: http://mrspoppadum.blogspot.com/
This is from one of my old CGPW blog posts:
One of the most commonly asked questions is “Which scales work over what chords?” I frequently answer this question by pointing out that it depends entirely on what you consider the “working” to mean?
What is a scale ‘working’ over a chord anyway?
Where this may appear not to answer the question at all and be a thoroughly unhelpful digression into the philosophical implications of perception, it’s actually worth thinking about because the whole idea that certain ‘prescribed’ scales work over certain chords, chord types, or chord sequences is actually rendering music and improvisation a sterile by-product of a prescribed approach, and a institutionalised ‘system’.
Using jazz as an example, there are some people who hate this style of music for whom the whole idea of a scale “working” over a chord or chord sequence (as a player improvises) is as far removed from a good idea as can be! Some may consider a scale ‘working’ over a chord progression to be dull, boring, and most probably the least inspirational music they may be exposed to. While rightfully entitled to their opinion, to what extent is this scale ‘working’ for them? It isn’t, so does the scale ‘work’ with the chord or chord sequence? It depends who is listening, and in the space between the extremes in musical taste (someone who hates jazz, and a jazz lover) the question of whether or not, and if so the extent to which a scale may ‘work’ over a chord, has many, many manifestations of answer, none right nor wrong, none more or less accurate than the previous or last, and the reason the question “Which scales work over what chords?” is ultimately vague, subjective, and with no real definitive answer.
Clearly it’s a good thing to learn which scales work over certain chords in a conventional sense. This starting point is invaluable for the serious and committed student of improvisation, but as I frequently say to my students, the scales, modes, and arpeggios which are most commonly ‘prescribed’ to work over certain chords and sequences don’t actually serve to help you to sound good. They serve to help you avoid sounding bad (which is not the same thing). Who wants to sound good anyway? Doesn’t the aspiring guitarist want to sound ‘great’? Don’t they want to play with their own voice, unrestricted by any technical or musical constraints that may stand in the way of them truly expressing what they really mean? The idea that someone wants to sound ‘good’ seems like one step too close to mediocrity when compared with the actual level that a player may aspire to!
Still want to know which scales work over which chords? You can find all that information on the internet.
Wouldn’t you rather know how to be a great guitarist? To find that out, the only way is to think about what scales ‘working’ over chords means to you, and then asking some better questions about it regarding how you really want to sound.
I agree with the balls to the theory approach, Barney.
What chord are people playing? E minor ... then E minor, E minor Pentatonic and scales with Minor and a root of E are a SAFE BET.
In reality the SAFEST NOTES to play are those of the chord. But it's WHEN to play them that matters ON THE BEAT! it really doesn't matter what note is played on the off-beat.
Pat Metheny goes further - play anything for the first 3 beats as long as you pull it back on the last beat of the bar people won't give a shit.
So spent over half the bar fucking around and know to land on the 3rd from the chord in the last beat of the bar.
There are 12 notes and essentially 3 types of chord it's really easy to play every degree of the chromatic over a minor chord, major chord and dominant chord - job pretty much done. Go further play all the notes over all the chords with different roots and you're only reinforcing that - how each note sounds over each type. I will guarantee that the combinations of playing those notes and chords will number less than the number of scales presented on the average website.
If you listen to Giant Steps, the pianist had no knowledge of the music till it was shown to him the day of the recording (Coltrane had cribbed for about 3 months) - listen to his solo - it's pretty awesome but it's all just working off the chords.
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