another microphone question

[DavidRees]

Hi,

can anyone think of any potential downsides [other than that was not the primary purpose of its design] to using a vocal condensor microphone designed for stage use, like the Sennheiser E865

http://www.dv247.com/microphones/sen...rophone--47795

or a similar Beyer for recording?

Was thinking of buying one of the AKG perception range [maybe the 170] but then thought that having the additional advantage of having something suitable for live use [and the the recording being very much of the sketchpad variety] it might be worth spending that bit extra for the added versatility, as long of course as there isn't a downside which is not immediately apparent to me

comments welcome please

thank you

David

[maltingsaudio]

Absalutely none at all, as long as phantom power is available to make it work, some mics eg AKG CS1000 and Shure PG81 have a battery option E865 and Perception 170 doesn't.

With regards to what you want it for all mics will pick up sounds and then send them to where you want them to go, what you want to achieve is made easior by the correct mic choice. The E865 is designed as a vocal mic therfor is best in this application, the 170 is designed to pick up more ( look at the Polar pattern of both mics you will see the 865 picks up mainly what is infront of it, the 170 picks up evrything that is around it) On stage for vocals you want your voice and nothing else, if you use the 170 for this it will try to pick up everything with all the problems that entails. If your sitting with your acoustic and recorder and either mic is at a distance they should capture the whole performance.

[ecc83]

Oo! There are a few! Disadvantages that is.

Cost. You could get 2 170s for that price.
The Sennheiser has a very low sensitivity for a capacitor mic of just 3mV/Pa. Intentionally so because it is designed for close micing and needs to some extent to "mimic" a dynamic.

The P 170 has a much more useful, for gen purpose recording (ac' guitar say) of 12mV/Pa. That is another 12dB of pre amp gain you don't need to find and a coresspondingly lower noise level. The 170 (i have the almost identical 150s)is "road hardened" and is actually capable of being a stage mic, the 20dB pad taking care of the gob proximity problem.

Then the Sennheiser is a HYPERcardiod and great tho' this might be for directionality hypers are always said to be somewhat "coloured" compared to cardiods (which themselves are not as attitude free as omnis!).

Don't get me wrong! I have the greatest regard for Sennie's products, I have several sets of their headphones but that is just not a general purpose, stoooodio mic!

Dave.

[maltingsaudio]

You see I read it as the OP wanted to buy a stage vocal mic and use it for the occasional recording of vox and guitar.

Personally unless its a choral sort of thing or a conference would never use a pencil for stage vocals

[ecc83]

You see I read it as the OP wanted to buy a stage vocal mic and use it for the occasional recording of vox and guitar.

Personally unless its a choral sort of thing or a conference would never use a pencil for stage vocals

Well yes, fair enough but for that money he could almost get a "classic" SM58 and a P170. Zero compromize?

Dave.

[maltingsaudio]

Well yes, fair enough but for that money he could almost get a "classic" SM58 and a P170. Zero compromize?

Dave.

Agreed (open debate on virtues and qualities of SM58's!}

Doug

[ecc83]

Agreed (open debate on virtues and qualities of SM58's!}

Doug

Heh! AGREED! They are often touted as THE stage vocal mic but surely have been bettered in 50 years?

The French Prodipe dynamic got a good rep' in SoS and it is about 1/3rd the price of a 58 and about 6dB more sensitive.

And from the (slightly) ridiculous to the sublime we have the Earth Works "ultimate" vocal mic at £840!
Dave.

[thebeagle]

Agreed (open debate on virtues and qualities of SM58's!}

Doug

Senn E840

[DavidRees]

thank you all for your comments David

[Wonks]

As Dave says, the hypercardoid pattern of the Senn is great for stage use but less so for studio vocals and even less so for acoustic instruments. Stage mics have small diaphragms which produce less output than a good large diaphragm condenser and have worse signal/noise values than a large diaphragm condenser. The need to damp against handling noise on a stage mic will also give a less accurate response compared to a 'studio' mic.

However if there is a need for a good stage mic first and a recording mic second, then get the stage mic requirement bit right. You do need to try different mics out as cost is no guarantee that a mic will suit your voice (or whoever is singing). A lot of stage condensers do have a flatter response that a dynamic, such as a 58, so often don't cut through a loud, busy mix as well. But they do have a lot more top-end, so do help female vocalists sound more natural. And there can be surprising differences between individual mics, so buy the one you try and like.

You said 'sketchpad' for the recording bit, so as long as that's all you want to use it for, rather than produce studio quality demos, then really any mic will serve this purpose. If you end up doing mre home recording, then's the time to invest in some decent studio mics. For those I'd look at 2nd-hand Groove Tubes mics which punch well above their weight.