Has Jimmy Saville had a sit-on-my-face lift?

[hungrymark]

Not hypothetical answer: if you knew me, you would know that my answer would be affirmative. Possibly why I am not richer and more famous than I am, but you know they say you get what you want, and I enjoy my anonymity and my life.

I realise what I said was harsh, but it's the one thing I truly do deplore, is this general pusillanimity and lack of principle which seem to characterise the human race. Sadly, as I have indicated, 99.9% evidently think as you do. I even discussed this with my father, who as it happens agrees with you that discretion is the better part of valour. "Only if you use the grace allowed by it to ensure the crime is uncovered", say I.

It's very easy to say this sort of thing. I like to think I'd blow the whistle, even if my livelihood was at stake - every moral fibre in my being would be screaming for me to do so - but would I? Having never been in that situation, who knows?

[A5D5E5]

It's very easy to say this sort of thing. I like to think I'd blow the whistle, even if my livelihood was at stake - every moral fibre in my being would be screaming for me to do so - but would I? Having never been in that situation, who knows?

Yes, easy to say, hard to do. Imagine the scene

"Hi Honey, I'm home"

"Hi. Good day at work?"

"Oh yes, I told my boss that Jim Famous is a sex pest"

"Oh we'll done. Billy, Suzie come over here and tell you daddy how proud you are of him."

"We love you dad"

"what did your boss say"

"Oh, he told me not to get involved in things I didn't understand, that Jim Famous brings in more advertising revenue in a day than I earn in a year and that I should clear my desk. He said he will make sure I will never work in paper clip design ever again"

"Oh"

*sound of children crying in the background

[Fusionista]

Yes, easy to say, hard to do. Imagine the scene *sound of children crying in the background

Stop, you're making me re-live it

[FBF]

Where I currently work, a medium-to-large corporate, if there was a sniff of anything like that the HR/disciplinary process would be all over it and if there was corroborating "evidence", witness statements etc. then I don't think anything would/could halt that process... I don't get the feeling there would ever be a cover up- One of the few positive effects of HR departments is that this kind of stuff gets taken very seriously.

Obviously some degree of evidence is required in any such case, otherwise it would be a free for all. But if someone can't use internal processes then there is always anonymous (or non-anonynonynonymousness, what is the opposite of anonymous?) whistleblowing to the bill... There's even a website these days isn't there? I totally get this kind of support wasn't there in the 70s, but now I don't feel like there is an excuse for not exposing behaviour of this kind in this day and age...

[frankus]

but now I don't feel like there is an excuse for not exposing behaviour of this kind in this day and age...

Life constantly gets better - I think this is proof of it.

For instance, it's only 20 years ago marital rape was recognised.

There is little profit to be had from judging one society by the values of another.. compare ancient Sparta to modern America and there's pluses and minuses either side.

With an institution the size of the beeb, you'll have countless burning current issues (being sued for camera-men getting eye cancer, Yvette Fielding's corrective surgery, is it too soon to rehire Russell Brand as a DJ, who has Clarkson offended now...) fire-fighting these current high-profile issues is more important to everyone.

If someone went to the BBC with the intention of dragging up a PR nightmare from the past they'd be seen for what they are, someone trying to capitalise on past mistakes and misery. While it's important to address these issues internally, the BBC has crippled itself with ludicrous idealistic objectives in the past - to the detriment of all. They'd need to know they can manage this issue with out becoming maosochistic as redress.

[Pendragon]

Where I currently work, a medium-to-large corporate, if there was a sniff of anything like that the HR/disciplinary process would be all over it and if there was corroborating "evidence", witness statements etc. then I don't think anything would/could halt that process... I don't get the feeling there would ever be a cover up- One of the few positive effects of HR departments is that this kind of stuff gets taken very seriously.

Whilst, in the main,I agree with you regarding HR, my negative experience has always been with the witnesses and their statements. I have investigated some fairly public workplace incidents and, to my annoyance and frustration, there has not been any witnesses, or at least any that were prepared to step forward. It's asking a lot from an employee that they come forward with a testimony that could, subsequently, see their workmate lose his job. It was 'known' amongst the senior management that the trade union actively discouraged their members giving witnesses statements, especially when detrimental to a 'brother'.

I was astounded/annoyed when employees approached me after the 'bullying boss' had retired to say that he bullied and intimated them. When I first raised the issue of this particular manager's behaviour with HR, nobody stepped forward in support. It was interpreted by some that I was creating this issue to discredit the manager and further my own career. Not a pleasant experience

[frankus]

I worked one place where rivalry between the "office princess" and one of the journos was so pitched, the princess conspired with her brother over email to complain about the journo and get her suspended.

As the journo was well-liked the sys-admin did a search of the companies email logs for the email address the complainant had used and found the conversation.

The complaint was upheld and the sys-admin was given a written warning for interfering.

It helps if the company you work for has forthright clueful managers and not a bunch of people focussed entirely on working their way up the corporate ladder in as safe a fashion as is possible.

[evilmags]

Life constantly gets better - I think this is proof of it.

There is little profit to be had from judging one society by the values of another.. compare ancient Sparta to modern America and there's pluses and minuses either side.

Relativist crappola I'm afraid. What are the plusses of living say in Saudi or Afganistan compared to the US. None that any rational person would bring up. Go and visit some shit holes. There is absolutley nothing to reccomend them. If you want to talk plus and minus between developed societies, such as Japan and the US, fair enough. But life in most of the third world is short, brutal, unfair and painful.

[frankus]

I'm afraid.

no doubt ... waggling your finger at me isn't going to help that.

What are the plusses of living say in Saudi or Afganistan compared to the US.

Less tax, less crap tv, less obesity, no Oprah or Roseanne

None that any rational person would bring up.

I severly doubt you could spot one...


a rational person, that is.

Go and visit some shit holes. There is absolutley nothing to reccomend them.

then why recommend I should visit them...

If you want to talk plus and minus between developed societies, such as Japan and the US, fair enough.

I think you'll find that kind of fairness is totally arbitrary and subjective.

But life in most of the third world is short, brutal, unfair and painful.

That's great, but what's that got to do with my saying life is getting better? A few centuries ago, life in most of England was short, brutal, unfair and painful.

You of all people should be aware of the concept of "trickle-down", life gets easier in England and we start exporting those benefits to Ireland, Wales, Scotland, India and so on.

70 years ago India was struggling for independence, now it has a space programme. I hope we live to see the same changes in Zimbabwe and the like.

Life is getting better, and in the main as we get what we want: the more inclined we are to help others get what they want.

Actually it goes further... which country has the best mobile network? India - the infrastructure was added later after the West had made all the expensive mistakes.

[evilmags]

Which country is the worst place on earth to be born female:- India. Facinating place and some of it is beautiful, but the smell of shite that pemeates most of its big cities is hardly an advertisement. Moreover India was held back for decades by religion and culture following its independence (much in the same way that Ireland was)

While progress generally makes things get better, regression is just as common. Zimbabwe, as you mentioned, is a total shitehole. 50 years ago it had the highest living standards and life expectency of Southern Africa. Now, thanks to its corrupt socialist leader, mr Mugabe, it is hell on earth.

Life has being getting better in the west, yes. It has started to get better for some people in places like Brazil, China and India. It has got a hell of a lot worse in just about every country on the globe where political Islam holds sway. Life in the UK was worse in the dark ages and early medieval period than it was in Roman times. Assuming constant progress is wrong headed because there is so much evidence against the premise. Life in the Middle East has gotten massively worst due to religious fanatics. Life in most of Africa has never gotten good enough in the first place to regress from...