How important is notation to the guitarist?

[Sir Axeman]

If you say so. Nothing wrong with shorthands, even ordinary ("proper") notation has that.



You didn't read the other points I made about how ordinary ("proper") notation addresses positioning and fingering.



It isn't snobbery to recognise that notation is capable of telling a player everything he need to know whereas tab isn't.

Where/how does standard notation address strings and fingering? In the tab beneath?

[Lixarto]

Where/how does standard notation address strings and fingering? In the tab beneath?

F'tang!

[thing]

I'm still amazed that this topic keeps cropping up. If you need to read notation then learn to read it, if you don't, don't.

I work for my local county music service teaching guitar in schools. There's a national syllabus for teaching guitar and all other instruments (for music services) and there's a certain amount of notation you have to teach. If you are working in schools as a private tutor then as far as I know you can do what you want. So do what in your professional opinion is right, if you have to ask then you have to ask why are you teaching in schools?

This bullshit about reading 'proper' music for guitarists has gone on for years and no doubt will continue to do so; it's the sound that the guitarist makes at the end of the day that counts. How he get's there is immaterial.

Having said all of that if you get into a situation where you are arranging horns or something for a band then it's no good saying that you want the note on the seventh fret of the second string......

I've banged on about this for years but reading notation is no harder than reading tab, why can't guitarists who probably think they need to (which probably isn't many) do both? It's not fucking rocket science.

[folkyblokey]

I'm asking because i'm interested to hear others views on this contentious and often debated subject!

I really don't get why there should be any contention. If student wants to learn to read notation, then teach notation. If they want to learn tab, teach them tab.
If they want to learn how to play the guitar, teach them how to play the guitar.

[musophilr]

Where/how does standard notation address strings and fingering? In the tab beneath?

Finger numbers next to the note head.
String numbers in circle above or below the stave.
Roman numerals for position.
And if you really need them, pima for the fretting hand.

You don't need tab. Only a working knowledge of scales & arpeggios.

Edit: If you're relying on the tab you can't read anything that was written for a different instrument!

[musophilr]

I've banged on about this for years but reading notation is no harder than reading tab, why can't guitarists who probably think they need to (which probably isn't many) do both? It's not fucking rocket science.

Since tab give no timing, you have to read the dots above the tab for the timing. Other people may differ but I find reading rhythm harder than reading pitch. So I say if you're already reading rhythm you've got over half the problem cracked. Reading the pitch is the easy bit.

I can't read tab. It only tells me where to put a finger. I need to see the relationships between the notes - before after and if necessary with the note I'm playing. Notation gives me scale runs, arpeggios, chord stacks, accidentals - tab doesn't.

[John_P]

My take is that it depends what context you want to play in...

For my band work it's quicker to put the song, play along and learn it by ear (depending how complex it is, this can be very quick or more time consuming). When playing with the band you can just talk through the song when you need to and hear and see what your doing so the communication is simpler.

In the past I've done quite a few musicals and when playing with a bigger ensemble and often playing small (but prominent) parts tradional notation allow you to follow the song and communicate more easily but that's partly because all the other instruments read standard notation so it's about conforming to the majority.

[thing]

+1. Notation is just communication, as long as you're speaking the same language then it doesn't matter. As a guitarist though I find it best to be proficient in any language I might meet.

I often get roped into writing Xmas concert pieces for schools and I can write everything out for all the other instruments using dots, then you get to the guitar parts and wonder if the kids can read or not. Shouldn't be like that.

Folksyblokey has hit on an interesting distinction in teaching philosophy there; I'm not interested in teaching people how to play the guitar, I'm interested in teaching people how to be musicians. I have no gripe whatsoever with guitar teachers who work along the lines of 'Put that finger there then that finger there' as there is a market particularly amongst adults for that sort of teaching; it just bores me to death as a teacher to do that, it's the equivalent of painting by numbers. I have a circle of guitar teacher mates who pass around students according to the strengths that a particular teacher has; so I would've say pass on someone enquiring about sweep picking onto a mate who does that and he will pass on someone enquiring about composition. It works very well and stops us imploding with terminal boredom.

[Sir Axeman]

Wondering here...how do Flamenco guitarists learn? Are they like Classical guitarists and use notation?

[thing]

They tend to now, but Flamenco was always passed down aurally. It's based more on song structure and improvisation and like rock music, a flamenco guitarist would hardly ever play the same piece the same way twice. The guitars are also totally different.

I had a go at Flamenco in the 70's when I was still a guitar player with zeal....it's bloody hard, in fact IMO it's the ultimate form of guitar.