Transcribing Complex Chord Structures

[Bellycaster]

Hi Folks

This is my first post on the technique threads.

How do you guys go on with transcribing complex, intricate or unusual chord structures.

I find myself better at transcribing solos, but I can transcribe songs that aren't too way out there(chordwise).

I am trying to learn 10cc "I'm Mandy, Fly Me". I cannot find a single cover or lesson on Y.T.

I have some of the chords, but this song is far from regular formula.

I learned the solos to this song in about 90 mins(with a little help from Audacity) but I think it may take me a lot longer for all the chords.

To me it is a lot harder to hear or recognise certain chords, or maybe it's certain chord shifts.

I like to learn songs even when where there is no guitar part, but other instruments making the music as there is always a chord that will fit over a given part.

Anyhow, thanks..........and if you know any bits to that song..............

Jon.

[SevenSharpNine]

Is there any section of the song or any particular chord that's giving you trouble?

[Bellycaster]

Hi

I'll have to get back to you on that as the parts I don't know are randomly spread. I was interested in general on how you guys go about it, or whether it is just a case of repetative recognition etc. I'm sure you'll agree, some songs are a lot more challenging chord wise.

Thanks, I'll get back to you.

Jon.

[SevenSharpNine]

Some of it is just getting familiar with the sound of different chord progressions. It helps if you learn all the basic chords in a key and relate them to the Roman Numeral system, i.e., I ii iii IV V vi vii*. Then you can start to get a feel for what it sounds like when some of these chords are moving from one to another. IV -> V is fairly recognizable, and I've always thought I -> iii stands out and is easy to pick out.

For me it was just a matter of time, but there are things you can do to speed up the process. I was taught that you can study chord movements and intervals by picking out parts of famous songs that use them. For example, the opening two chords of "A Day in the Life" by the Beatles is I -> iii. The opening two notes of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" is an octave.

Relating these note movements to pieces of music you already recognize very well can help you identify similar movements in other songs.

The same is true for different types of chords. If you're having difficulty recognizing the difference between a Major chord and a Major 7th chord, try picking out a song you know well with a prominent Major 7th chord in it to help you recognize when you're hearing that same chord in a different song.

[mellowsun]

In addition to the above, I would learn the sounds of as many 'slash' chords as you can - chords where you have a triad where the root isn't the tonic. Start with the first and second inversions (3rd in the bass, 5th in the bass), then chords with the b7 in the bass and the 2nd in the bass.

Unlike the piano the number of notes you can possibly play is 6, so that limits the possible combinations! For really complex chords that span a couple of octaves (such as Holdsworth type shapes), try to break it down to picking out the bass note, then listening for the interval or triad being played on the treble strings.

Progressions are often played using shapes that fall under the hand easily. So for example, you might get a G first inversion (B in the bass) played with the 2nd finger on the B on the bottom E string, first finger on the G on the D string, 3rd finger on the D on the G string, and 4th finger on the G on the B string.

This might get shifted down a semitone with the 1st finger staying on the G on the D string, giving you a passing chord that is hard to name (basically an A13/Bb) but sounds quite nice when resolved e.g. to an A 7 type chord.

[DynamiteKid]

The way I do it is try to isolate the chord I'm missing to one overriding note. Then once I have that overriding note I work my way through all the chords I know that have that note in it (be it as root, bass note as a slash chord like someone else said, third, or on a rare occasion fifth or sharp fifth) and find whatever sounds right, and adjust accordingly. Works for me generally.

[monquixote]

Easy Ear Training has some good stuff on chords. (Disclosure: It's not my site, but I do write for them)

http://www.easyeartraining.com/topic...-pitch/chords/

[Bellycaster]

Hi

@dynamitekid

Thanks, I am getting some good advice on here. I do use a lot of the tactics you and others have mentioned but still sometimes the chord evades me. In the end I have kicked myself sometimes when a given chord as ended up being a simple Minor chord or something and I will have tried all the 7, maj7, min7 before and over complicated things.

By the way I did eventually find a tab which is correct for the 10cc track. It does have a few Slash chords and some 6th chords. The thing with songs like this is they don't follow a usual formula where you can kind of guess what a sequence is going to resolve to, plus it sounds like it changes key a lot, I have no idea what key this song is in.

Jon.