LZ's Black Dog - riff timing
I've been playing along to a guitar-free backing track of this for a few days and I'm struggling with the timing of the alternating vocal/riff. Basically it's hit or miss whether I manage to come in at exactly the same point as the bass/drums.
There's a backing on YouTube that makes it easier because there are two hi-hat hits to count you in.
I've tried counting these in my head with the more accurate (hat free) backing track and I still cock it up more often than nail it. Usually my best results are achieved when I try and relax and forget about the counting. However, I still manage to mess it up a lot.
Am I just at the (very low) limit of my musical ability here? I've always known my timing is suspect and I can turn a 2/4 metronome beat around quicker than you can say "talentless wanker".
Any thoughts?
It is the most shattering experience of a young man's life, when one morning he awakes, and quite reasonably says to himself: "I will never play the Dane"
The timing on the original's all over the shop, IMO, so I wouldn't worry about it. In terms of testing your own timing, Black Dog is pretty much the worst song you could use as a comparison!Originally Posted by Basher
The Led Zep Celebration Day version of this is on youtube - some very odd timimg going on there!
What you need is the Fred Zeppelin version, everything is better with a reggae beat.
Breeding mammals with insects is my personal bugbear.
Hmm. I realise that it's a weird one timing-wise. It's not the general groove of the song I'm having a problem with, just getting the right length of pause after each vocal line. I'm even beginning to suspect that it changes all the time.
Interestingly, the Celebration Day footage appears to show Jason Bonham keeping a pedalled hi-hat going throughout the vocal lines, even though it's not audible out front. Maybe it's just fed to the monitors to help timing? He's also added extra fills during these parts which cue the riff so maybe even they were having trouble getting it 100% right themselves!
Last edited by Basher; 19th November 2012 at 02:19 PM.
It is the most shattering experience of a young man's life, when one morning he awakes, and quite reasonably says to himself: "I will never play the Dane"
Listen very carefully to the recorded version, his Dad did the same to keep them in time. They muted that track but there's bleed through.
Bloody tricky song to cover. We tried it once and gave up!
Quite a few songs where I've wondered how the hell they ( generic 'they ' there meaning lots of different bands) know when to come in on songs so it's often good to reference a live version and find out that the original artist can't do it either and they have a work around.
Breeding mammals with insects is my personal bugbear.
The timing's not consistent in the original, however if you're playing along with it you can cue off the pregnant pauses, the vocal line etc, rather than counting beats. I would imagine in the studio if it was recorded live there would've been a lot of visual cues going on, all watching each other to see how long the pauses could be drawn out. Communication, separates a good band from all the rest.
"without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible"
The proggy guys spring to mind, although many of them seem to do it live as well!
I hear you but unfortunately don't seem able to consistently cue off the pauses. I've tried saying "and-a" or similar things to myself with equally poor results. Odd how, despite having heard this song quite regularly for most of my life, I still can't play it properly
Good point about the visual cues though. I'd imagine seeing someone like Bonzo raising his arms, about to whack the living crap out of his kit would help you time it properly!
It is the most shattering experience of a young man's life, when one morning he awakes, and quite reasonably says to himself: "I will never play the Dane"
Have tried to face the music (literally) and record myself (which I hate) to see what it reveals.
Did two or three takes and it revealed that I was reasonably consistently coming in early (panic?).
So after a spotting this, I deliberately tried to come in later and got a bit closer. It's still not there but better than before. What's odd is that while recording, it felt very behind the groove but on listening back, it seemed closer. Looking at the waveforms of the three riffs, the first was pretty close, the second was a bit late and the third a wee bit early.
http://www.brendanashbrook.pwp.bluey.../black-dog.mp3
PS: Anyone who suggests Page is a sloppy player wants their arse kicking.
Edit: Smiley added to indicate lame attempt at humour.
Last edited by Basher; 20th November 2012 at 08:09 AM.
It is the most shattering experience of a young man's life, when one morning he awakes, and quite reasonably says to himself: "I will never play the Dane"
Why?
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