Decimator vs NS-2

[samgoldshark]

Has anyone had both?
I've realised that my NS-2 doesn't let my sustained notes ring out to feedback if its set to properly block the hiss from the dirt pedals, even though it has the 4 cable method that should allow it to distinguish guitar signal...and annoyingly, the footswitch operation isn't an on/off for the noise gate effect but just a mute which seems pointless to me.
I know the Decimator has a more complex algorithm and people rave about it but anyone got experience of both?

[Bidley]

The 4CM with the NS2 didn't work for me, it was doing exactly what is happening to you - suppressing all my sustained notes, and generally making everything sound a bit 'digitised' (for want of a better word). Now I just put my dirt pedal in the NS2's loop, and have it going into the front of my amp. It still kills amp noise that way too. I don't understand the footswitch operation problem you have? If I set mine to "suppression", the footswitch just switches suppression on and off, signal will pass through either way. I think because you're using the 4CM it's acting as a mute.

Try using it the way I do and see how you get on, that would be my advice before getting rid. I'm perfectly happy with mine.

[3redlights]

The decimator did nothing for me, either it was choking my notes or it wasnt killing the hum. Now I just use the in built gate on an M5.

[uncle_psychosis]

I've never really seen the point in noise gates---you can only hear the noise if you're not playing, so I'd rather just kill the signal with a cheap kill switch at that point rather than faff around with a relatively expensive noisegate (especially when they have downsides like you've discovered).

[samgoldshark]

Thanks Bidley! I'd like to try that - so how do you wire up the dirt pedals to be in the loop? is it a 4 cable set up or just straight after the dirt pedals?
Uncle_P - the reason I need it is for songs where you play heavy stacatto chords with many audible rests - its just too many to be able to turn the dirt on and off all the time. I'd prefer not to use em too but the hiss makes these riffs too messy.

[Dave_Mc]

i thought the ns2 didn't work too badly in the x pattern (though now that i think of it, I'm not sure i had pedals in the chain too- i was just using it to cut guitar and preamp noise).

the decimator is better, IMO- people say it's totally transparent, and it's not, but it is pretty good and feels very natural. However, the big problem with the bog standard decimator is you can't use it both in front of the amp and in the loop at the same time. to get that, you need the g-string, which is very expensive (even if you order from, say, proguitarshop).

In practice, i generally just run my decimator either in the loop or in front, and it cuts enough noise for my liking (for sake of full disclosure, i rarely even use a noise gate any more, so "cutting enough for my liking" is likely to be nowhere near enough for you... in the loop it more or less cuts everything, but in front it doesn't (and i fancy it feels more "natural" in front)), but i also get the feeling it'd work better, and feel more natural, if i could run it both in front of the amp and in the loop as well.

it's up to you, really. i've never tried the g-string version so i dunno how well it works in the x-pattern method, either.

[Bidley]

Thanks Bidley! I'd like to try that - so how do you wire up the dirt pedals to be in the loop? is it a 4 cable set up or just straight after the dirt pedals?

It's still four cables, but set up like this:

Guitar > NS2 input
NS2 output > amp
NS2 Send > dirt pedal
dirt pedal > NS2 return

If that makes sense? So your dirt pedal(s) should only be connected to the NS2. Let us know how you get on, I'm sure you'll be alright. By the way, I have it set to "Reduction" mode, with the "Decay" rolled all the way off, and the Threshold at 11/12 O'clock. I find the Decay control just kills your sustain.

[Dave_Mc]

^ that might be the most effective way to cut pedal noise, but that won't cut amp noise, though.

I think- you need to do (presumably) a combination of the x-pattern method with your pedals in the appropriate part of that chain.

guitar-> ns2 input
ns2 send-> dirt pedals
dirt pedals -> amp input
amp fx loop send ->ns2 return
ns2 output -> fx loop return

I think. as I said, I haven't tried that (and that also assumes no pedals in the loop, which would further complicate things, but which is still possible, in theory anyway). Just going by the x-pattern diagram

I've never really seen the point in noise gates---you can only hear the noise if you're not playing, so I'd rather just kill the signal with a cheap kill switch at that point rather than faff around with a relatively expensive noisegate (especially when they have downsides like you've discovered).

nah if they're set up well and you're playing a certain type of music they can help a lot, in my opinion anyway. they tighten everything up, etc. etc. etc. not to mention cutting the noise. As i said, i rarely use mine any more, and it's always better to see if you can prevent the noise than try to cure it, but for certain things they are very useful.

[Bidley]

^ that might be the most effective way to cut pedal noise, but that won't cut amp noise, though.

I think- you need to do (presumably) a combination of the x-pattern method with your pedals in the appropriate part of that chain.

guitar-> ns2 input
ns2 send-> dirt pedals
dirt pedals -> amp input
amp fx loop send ->ns2 return
ns2 output -> fx loop return

I think. as I said, I haven't tried that (and that also assumes no pedals in the loop, which would further complicate things, but which is still possible, in theory anyway). Just going by the x-pattern diagram

I think that's what he's doing now. It will cut a little amp noise with the method I explained - it'll remove the hiss, but not loads of feedback if the amp gain is up high - but not as effectively as it would do in the fx loop. He says noisy dirt pedals are the issue. I think the biggest problem is probably the decay setting being anywhere above 0

The X-pattern is good for some setups, certainly if you're having real problems with noise and are using lots of gain from both amp and pedals, but the pedal wasn't designed for that configuration so it won't work as it should. A good example being that, if you stomp the NS2 off, it won't pass any signal.

[Dave_Mc]

ah ok, that's fair enough if he was doing it that way already, I didn't realise that.

I only tried it the once- I got the decimator because i didn't like the ns2, and then realised I hadn't tried the ns2 using the x-pattern So I wanted to try it to make sure I hadn't written off a perfectly good pedal

Does it not pass signal when off when in the x-pattern? That does sorta make sense. Though I could've sworn I tried it (but as i said, I did only try it the once and wouldn't want to swear to it ).

I kinda get the feeling the ideal is either two decimator pedals, or the pro rack g version. Of course, that gets expensive mighty quickly (it put me off, even the bog standard decimator alone works well enough for my needs, but then i don't gig or anything and noise is likely more of a problem at gigs and the like).