another john birch rebuild

[impmann]

Back to macro (and sorry for the thread hijack, Wez)... I can't wait to see the revamped Birch. It does look super cool... (IMHO)

[TheGuitarWeasel]

If I could find another Shergold electric 12 string for the right price I'd bite their hand off.
The interesting thing is that almost to a man, Jack Golder, Norman Houlder, Charlie Watkins, Jim Burns, John Birch etc were superb engineers who didn't have enough contact ... precisely because of import restrictions ... with top flight kit. We perhaps forget how badly engineered Teiscos, Zentas, early Antorias were from japan. Still the Japanese quickly learned the art of plagiarism ... ripping off American classics to build their industry ... while the idiosyncratic furrow the British industry plowed is now an object for ridicule. Ironic ...

[ICBM]

I agree they were good engineers, but come on... Fenders and Gibsons weren't exactly rare in the UK after the mid 60s. Most 'name' bands had them. By the mid-70s, they were being imported full-scale and the British builders can't possibly have been unaware of them. The British guitars were still cheaper too - but they never achieved real success purely because the designs weren't right.

Of course, Fender and Gibson did the same thing in the 70s as well! In some ways, those much-maligned late-CBS Fender and Norlin Gibsons are the Big Two's "British guitars"... actually quite well made - at least in terms of materials - but just *wrong* .

Though curiously, my Les Paul Signature is totally *right* - it just doesn't look it at first. Likewise the Fender Starcaster.

[TheGuitarWeasel]

I agree they were good engineers, but come on... Fenders and Gibsons weren't exactly rare in the UK after the mid 60s. Most 'name' bands had them. By the mid-70s, they were being imported full-scale and the British builders can't possibly have been unaware of them. The British guitars were still cheaper too - but they never achieved real success purely because the designs weren't right.

Of course, Fender and Gibson did the same thing in the 70s as well! In some ways, those much-maligned late-CBS Fender and Norlin Gibsons are the Big Two's "British guitars"... actually quite well made - at least in terms of materials - but just *wrong* .

Though curiously, my Les Paul Signature is totally *right* - it just doesn't look it at first. Likewise the Fender Starcaster.

I honestly think that during the sixties ... the formative years of the British brands ... there was simply not enough contact with 'good' instruments and good practise. Yes ... by the seventies things had changed, but by that time the pattern was set and it was too late. British builders were trying to be original (and sadly failing with style) ... when what the buying public wanted were cheap copies. The Japanese at the time ... like the Chinese now ... didn't give a crap about patents, plagerism or originality ... and sealed the fate of the british mass market guitar. Now I love 'lawsuit' Japanese guitars ... but if it were a choice between an Antoria Les Paul and Shergold ... one is a blatent rip off and the other is a flawed gem.

[ICBM]

I don't really like the 'lawsuit' guitars. The Japanese designs I'm talking about are things like the Yamaha SG and BB series, Ibanez Artist and Musician series and Aria Cardinal and SB series. They're not rip-offs of any American design really (not even the Yamaha SGs really, despite being roughly the shape of an SG), but they're great, 'right' designs and they're certainly very high quality. Yes, they had to go through the junk and copy periods before they got there... but they did get there.

[TheGuitarWeasel]

I don't really like the 'lawsuit' guitars. The Japanese designs I'm talking about are things like the Yamaha SG and BB series, Ibanez Artist and Musician series and Aria Cardinal and SB series. They're not rip-offs of any American design really (not even the Yamaha SGs really, despite being roughly the shape of an SG), but they're great, 'right' designs and they're certainly very high quality. Yes, they had to go through the junk and copy periods before they got there... but they did get there.

But it was precisely because the Japanese industry went through the copy phase that they succeeded where we failed! With guitars as with cars the Japanese ... if left to entirely their own devices ... produce style train wrecks to rival any British ones. All the guitars you mention are simply US shapes with slight changes ... like the Mazda MX5 is basically a Lotus Elan blended with a MGB. When the Japanese produce their own shapes we get:
nissan-cube-alloys.jpg

[WezV]

worth pointing out that most john birch's are versions of Gibson guitars, with a few strats and rickenbackers thrown in for good measure


also, he clearly got his hands on lots of american made guitars... might have been better if they were kept from him

I suspect he had never held a V when he made this one though, but his other v's look a bit more normal and that is what i will be emulating with the rebuild

[danomess]

also, he clearly got his hands on lots of american made guitars... might have been better if they were kept from him

[drwiddly]

I think John Birch had very strong views on what a guitar should have (design wise) and what it should be able to do. I don't think he gave very much consideration to the needs of the player! I liked the 24 fret, thru neck designs with good upper fret access and his pickups were good but I'm really not convinced that all guitars need a tone and volume knob for each pickup, a master volume control, 4 selector switches and two or three rotary switches that only work if the aforementioned selector switches are in the up/mid/down position (delete to taste!).

As far as I know, his background was in electronics and he learnt his trade in the RAF during the war. He clearly wanted to make his guitars resemble the cockpit of a Lancaster bomber .

[ICBM]

But it was precisely because the Japanese industry went through the copy phase that they succeeded where we failed! With guitars as with cars the Japanese ... if left to entirely their own devices ... produce style train wrecks to rival any British ones. All the guitars you mention are simply US shapes with slight changes ...

What US shape is an Aria SB a copy of?

When the Japanese produce their own shapes we get:

...things like this:



... which I know is not everyone's cup of tea, but it is a very 'right' design in many ways.


And as Wez said, John Birch's guitars were almost all (bad) copies!