Fender Deluxe Reverb Speaker Replacement?

[JackGriffiths]

Hi all,

I love my Deluxe Reverb reissue and really am very pleased with it, apart from one thing - I like to use it with the volume on 7, treble around 5.5 and bass 4.5 and a bit of reverb, on the Vibrato channel and use the guitar to clean up. The only problem is, at this volume level, when the amp is overdriving naturally, it has this nasty harshness in the top end, but only when the guitar volume is on full. I know it's not the guitar, because it's the same with every guitar I've tried through it and I use the guitars with other amps, no problem. I'm thinking it's the speaker (stock Jensen C12K 100w). I have 25w GBs and Vintage 30s lying around but wondered if anyone else has had experience with a great Deluxe Reverb speaker upgrade, or whether I'm just barking up the wrong tree in the first place. Like I say, I love the sound of the amp and I don't think it's the preamp or power section that's the problem, as when I bought it it had been revalved. Do I need to just be patient and see if the speaker still needs time to break in?

I've just had another thought, of clipping the bright cap on the vibrato channel, or maybe installing a switch to put it in and out of the circuit, a la Super Reverb?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jack

[bobsbobbackwards]

The Eminence Cannabis Rex is supposed to be a good choice. I've not tried one in a DRRI but they are very nice speakers, really smooth and fat.

I sometimes put my PRRI through a 12" Gold, that sounds really nice.

[ICBM]

Things to try before you modify anything...

First, run the amp with the same settings but the volume on 10 - you may have to back the guitar off slightly. If the problem still remains it's not the bright cap, since that's bypassed when the volume is full up.

Second, if that doesn't stop it, use the Normal channel - you may have to set the volume and treble a bit higher to get the same tone. If the problem now goes away, it's either the cap on the reverb mix stage on the Vibrato channel, which is also what makes BF/SF Fenders sound harsh with distortion pedals - you can't remove this cap or it will make the Vibrato channel very muddy - or the reverb distorting.

Third, remove the reverb drive valve - the third preamp valve from the input jack end - which will eliminate any distortion from the drive stage leaking into the audio path, and try again on the Vibrato channel.

If none of this cures it, you could try one of the other speakers, but before you dismantle anything, check whether there are four or eight speaker bolts - I can't remember about the reissues, most old ones have eight which means you can't fit a Celestion without removing four of the bolts, which is a pain since the Deluxe does not have a separate grille frame.

[knuckleberryfinn]

I put a Cannabis Rex in my DRII, and couldn't be happier. It replaced a Jensen C12Q, which was harsh at high volume. The DRRI I played had the same harshness, so reckon the Cannabis Rex would do it. And it's not too pricey.

[JackGriffiths]

Thanks for the advice so far, the Cannabis Rex looks like a nice speaker, my only concern is that it doesn't really seem to fit the bill for the way I use my Deluxe, as in up loud and crunchy as opposed to clean. Any views on how the Canis Major compares? I think I might try one of my Vintage 30s in there to start with.

I'm also wondering if it could be a bias issue? Apparently Fender bias the amps very low which could be bordering on crossover distortion - maybe I should have it notched up a little?

Jack

[ICBM]

I'm also wondering if it could be a bias issue? Apparently Fender bias the amps very low which could be bordering on crossover distortion - maybe I should have it notched up a little?

Possibly, but try the other things you can check without taking the amp apart first.

[parker_knoll]

to be honest there's an infinity of answers to this question. have you looked on Fenderguru? they have some sound samples and recommendations up there

[JackGriffiths]

Hi guys, sorry to repost on an old thread - I've just plugged my DR in to both (seperately) an Orange 2x12 with Vintage 30s and an old Marshall 4x12 with 25w GBs (I was a little wary of the 8 ohm amp --> 16 ohm cab mismatch), but the sound when plugged in to either cab was a fantastic improvement. Much tighter bass, no more spiky highs (I've realised that I think it's actually upper mids causing the problem, and have read that the C12K is quite heavy on the mids).

My problem now is that I can't work out whether it was the closed back cabs or the change in speakers making this huge change. I recently took the amp to a session to record with it and it sounded pretty nasty (same upper mid problem) under the microphone, which should have nothing to do with the open back cab, so that's got me thinking it could be the speaker. Obviously I'm more hopeful that it's the latter as that can be easily changed and I don't really want to have to be lugging around a seperate closed back cab.

Being that I play with the amp's overdriven tones 85% of the time and I presume that the C12K was matched to enhance the clean tone of the amp, I don't think it's right for me at all. Any opinions on whether it's worth a try to stick a different speaker in there or if I'll just be going round in frustrated circles due to the open back cab? The flubby low end I can kind of deal with, although would like to be rid of it, but it's those terrible harsh upper mids/highs that are the real problem.

FWIW, I thought the clean tones through the Vintage 30s and GBs were just as nice, if not nicer (smoother, rounder) than the C12K.

Jack

[bobsbobbackwards]

Honestly, try a Crex, they sound great with gain. I used one in a Rivera Clubster, sounded nice clean but also excellent on the gain channel. I like the Jensen's I've tried, but the one in my Princeton Reverb Reissue sounded terrible when pushed but really nice with quieter cleans.

The Cannabis Rex is a very smooth sounding speaker with no harshness at all.

[ICBM]

OK, so now it's definitely the speaker and not the amp...

(I was a little wary of the 8 ohm amp --> 16 ohm cab mismatch)

Technical point - it isn't! Or no more than it is at 8 ohms, anyway.

The DR is actually mismatched as stock, into the 8-ohm speaker. I'm not sure why this should be so, whether it was deliberate or a mistake, but the 'correct' (matching, maximum power delivery) load impedance is about 13 or 14 ohms, from memory... I heard about it years ago, didn't believe Fender would do something like that, measured it and found that it was true! I can't remember the exact value, but basically a 16-ohm speaker is a better match and will produce more power and tighten up the sound. The DR's well-known slightly flubby/mushy overdriven sound is in fact a characteristic of a low mismatch.

but the sound when plugged in to either cab was a fantastic improvement. Much tighter bass, no more spiky highs (I've realised that I think it's actually upper mids causing the problem, and have read that the C12K is quite heavy on the mids)

This will be part of it, but not all - the V30s are quite upper-middy too.

Being that I play with the amp's overdriven tones 85% of the time and I presume that the C12K was matched to enhance the clean tone of the amp, I don't think it's right for me at all. Any opinions on whether it's worth a try to stick a different speaker in there or if I'll just be going round in frustrated circles due to the open back cab? The flubby low end I can kind of deal with, although would like to be rid of it, but it's those terrible harsh upper mids/highs that are the real problem.

The high-end is mostly a speaker issue; the low-end could be the cab but is just as likely the inherent tone of the DR into 8 ohms.

FWIW, I thought the clean tones through the Vintage 30s and GBs were just as nice, if not nicer (smoother, rounder) than the C12K.

In that case, I would try a 16-ohm V30. Really!

It won't sound quite the same as into the much heavier closed-back Orange cab, but it will be better than the C12K for sure if you preferred the cab. A single Greenback is maybe not quite the right choice if you're concerned about the low-end tightness.