Suggestions for increasing low end on my likkle 10" combo

[ecc83]

You could try a "slot" port.

You make a completely new back panel but make it 3/8" short of the cab bottom. If that does not work, extend it by fitting a "shelf". Probably easiest to fit a 1"x1" batton across the bottom of the back and then screw various depth of shelves to that.

As has been said, the port will do best coupling directly to the floor, a practice usually to be avoided with cabs!

Lot of work tho' and a new cab is probably a better bet. Avoiding V30s has been said (?) similarly avoid the Century Neo. A 55Hz Greenback should be good?

Such Fun!

Dave.

[ESBlonde]

In the end the driver size is not important, your ear plug phones produce bass from a few mm drivers. It's all about loading the driver properly as far as low end response is concerned. If the box is tuned right (infinate baffle or ported) it will sound beep, how big are your Hi Fi speakers and how low do they go? Yes the guitar is a restricted bandwidth anyway but loading the driver properly gives it thump.
So size is important, who'd a thunk it.

[ICBM]

In the end the driver size is not important, your ear plug phones produce bass from a few mm drivers. It's all about loading the driver properly as far as low end response is concerned. If the box is tuned right (infinate baffle or ported) it will sound beep, how big are your Hi Fi speakers and how low do they go? Yes the guitar is a restricted bandwidth anyway but loading the driver properly gives it thump.
So size is important, who'd a thunk it.

We've had this argument before in another thread, and it's mixing up two concepts - yes, for *tuned enclosures* driver size is not important, the enclosure is.

But guitar enclosures are not tuned - or little enough that it's not the most important factor... the driver is. Yes, you can change the sound of the driver by loading it differently - but not as much as by using a different driver.

Headphone drivers only produce a lot of bass because they're directly coupled to your ears in a confined space. If you take off the headphones and listen to them in a room, they don't.

There's also a very big difference between hi-fi bass drivers and guitar speakers.

None of the reasons why "size doesn't matter" are actually wrong per se, they just don't apply to guitar cabinets, because guitar cabinets are not properly designed acoustic systems... they're boxes with speakers in, and hence the speaker becomes the most important part.

[ESBlonde]

We've had this argument before in another thread, and it's mixing up two concepts - yes, for *tuned enclosures* driver size is not important, the enclosure is.

But guitar enclosures are not tuned - or little enough that it's not the most important factor... the driver is. Yes, you can change the sound of the driver by loading it differently - but not as much as by using a different driver.

Headphone drivers only produce a lot of bass because they're directly coupled to your ears in a confined space. If you take off the headphones and listen to them in a room, they don't.

There's also a very big difference between hi-fi bass drivers and guitar speakers.

None of the reasons why "size doesn't matter" are actually wrong per se, they just don't apply to guitar cabinets, because guitar cabinets are not properly designed acoustic systems... they're boxes with speakers in, and hence the speaker becomes the most important part.

That's why I said the enclosure (and environment for quarter or half loading) is the key. For no cost, back off, cab on the floor near a wall. Everything else requires engineering and cost, be that a different driver or box.

[ecc83]

In his papers reproduced in the 1973 issues of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Richard H Small make the point that the performance of a vented enclosure for any particular driver is a balance of box size, low frequency cutoff, sensitivity and ultimate power handling and that latter is mostly displacement limited which guitar speakers do not have a lot of!

I strongly suspect that there is not much mileage in ported enclosures for guitar drive units as the box would be of an unacceptable size.

Dave.

[ICBM]

I strongly suspect that there is not much mileage in ported enclosures for guitar drive units as the box would be of an unacceptable size.

Have you heard the Mesa "Thiele" cab? Regardless of whether the "Thiele" name is anything more than marketing BS, it's a near-minimum-size 1x12" with a reflex port, that sounds *huge* - almost 4x12"-like. Quite remarkable given the small size. I don't know if it would work with all speakers, but it does with both the EVM-12L and the Celestion Custom 90, and I think the earliest ones were fitted with Altecs of some sort.

[parker_knoll]

In his papers reproduced in the 1973 issues of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Richard H Small make the point that the performance of a vented enclosure for any particular driver is a balance of box size, low frequency cutoff, sensitivity and ultimate power handling and that latter is mostly displacement limited which guitar speakers do not have a lot of!

I strongly suspect that there is not much mileage in ported enclosures for guitar drive units as the box would be of an unacceptable size.

Dave.

I've got a ported 2x12 cab and i have to say it produces a lot more bass than the same speakers in a standard cab. it also emphasis a lot of upper mid as well, for some reason.

[ecc83]

Have you heard the Mesa "Thiele" cab? Regardless of whether the "Thiele" name is anything more than marketing BS, it's a near-minimum-size 1x12" with a reflex port, that sounds *huge* - almost 4x12"-like. Quite remarkable given the small size. I don't know if it would work with all speakers, but it does with both the EVM-12L and the Celestion Custom 90, and I think the earliest ones were fitted with Altecs of some sort.

Yes I have heard "of" but not heard the Mesa Thiele cab but I have not seen any critcal work done on it. They might be throwing away sensitivity for LF output or/and ultimate power handling. One thing is for sure, they cannot beat physics!

From a purely historical perspective, before long throw, very low resonance (high compliance) cones were developed, in order to get any kind of decent bass cones had to be big, 12" was the norm for domestic use and 15 and 18s for studio and cinema repro' (indeed, the only place that the average Joe ever heard "proper" undistorted* bass was the pictures! Not a lot has changed.) Such speakers demanded a big box, 3-4cu ft would be regarded as the minimum for domestic use with 12s and 6-16cu ft for a SINGLE 15-18 inch speaker.

Guitar speakers are the ultimate short throw, "stiff" speaker and yet even 2 cu ft would be regarded as quite big for a single 12. (note. I am talking internal volumes here).

However you cut it, closed box, reflex, passenger cone, transmission line...The output is constrained by the peak to peak displacement allowed and the area it works through.

*Most of what we hear as "bass" most of the time is harmonics.

Dave.

[ICBM]

Yes I have heard "of" but not heard the Mesa Thiele cab but I have not seen any critcal work done on it. They might be throwing away sensitivity for LF output or/and ultimate power handling. One thing is for sure, they cannot beat physics!

That's true - but they're definitely not throwing away sensitivity either! Possibly power handling... but since most of them were fitted with the 200W EV it probably doesn't matter too much.

*Most of what we hear as "bass" most of the time is harmonics.

Definitely. That's the principle behind the Ampeg SVT cabinet and other sealed multiple-10" enclosures.

[koneguitarist]

so if it sounds bassier using multiples of smaller speakers its not ?
I don`t know all the physiques and stuff, but if it sounds bassier to me however its done, its bassier !