re tokai pickups......Heeeeeelp!

[surfguy13]

Hi guys

Can anyone explain what the wires are from the photo below:



It's a neck pickup from a tokai LP and I'm not sure which wires are what?!! Within the grey outer sleeve there are 4 wires and a thick braid that appears to be wrapped around all 4 wires. The green and red wires are separated and the blue and yellow wires are sheathed together in some black tubing. I assume one of these is the 'hot' wire and one is the earth? Not sure what I do with the other two?!!! Also, there is the thick braided wire too - is this the earth?

The two conductor pickup wires from the pickup I'm taking out were wired: braided outer to top of pot and 'hot' inner core to the right tag of the pot (when looking down on the pot).

Sorry for the lack of technical terms etc etc.....

Can anyone explain, in very basic terms, which of the 4 wires need to be soldered to the pot and where? Ta!!!

[thermionic]

The 4 wires are start/finish of the two coils. The yellow and blue have been soldered together and covered in heatshrink tubing (not using a coil tap option). I guess the braid is a ground for the pickup cover (I think usually the cover is grounded to one of the other 4 wires inside the pickup).

The colours look a bit non-standard though: http://www.diyguitarmods.com/images/...olor-codes.jpg

[TheGuitarWeasel]

In conventional four conductor wiring no other wire but the shield (braided or a small bundle of bare wire)is connected to the pickup base/cover inside the pickup itself, otherwise the object of four independent wires is lost. the soldered together wires are indeed the series link between the two coils. one of the other wires will be the hot output and the other will solder to ground with the shield. Which you use will determine the electrical phase of the pickup ... so if you get it wrong you will know, as you will be rewarded with an out of phase pair of pickups when you put both on together. If that happens just reverse them. My guess is the red is hot and the green should go to earth with the braid.

[surfguy13]

Thanks for this, really helpful. So, the yellow and blue wires can be ignored leaving the green and red wires which, I assume, most be hot and earth? Is there any way to determine which is which? Should I solder the braid to the top of the pot with the earth?

As you say, the colours of these wires don't appear on that chart....I think they may be Gotoh pickups, or from the Gotoh factory, but I'm far from sure.

The 4 wires are start/finish of the two coils. The yellow and blue have been soldered together and covered in heatshrink tubing (not using a coil tap option). I guess the braid is a ground for the pickup cover (I think usually the cover is grounded to one of the other 4 wires inside the pickup).

The colours look a bit non-standard though: http://www.diyguitarmods.com/images/...olor-codes.jpg

[TheGuitarWeasel]

If you don't think of them as hot and earth but 'start' and 'finish' ... you will see that it doesn't matter which one is earth or hot ... just one way the 'juice' for the want of a better word is going round in one direction ... if you swap em over it goes the other. This only matters when you are using your pickup with another one as the electrical 'directions' must be the same (in phase). Solder the braid to ground (pot back) and probably the green wire, then your red is the 'hot'. As I say if you have a pair of pickups they should be in phase, so if you get that thin, nasal sound with both pickups on solder the red to the pot back and make green 'hot' ...
Simples (squeak)

[surfguy13]

Aha! I now sort-of understand what's meant by out of phase pickups. Obviously it is going to be paired with another pickup as it's a LP so I need to get it right. Great that it's just a case of swapping the green and red round if I do get it wrong though.

It makes perfect sense that the red is the 'hot' wire and the green is soldered to the top of the pot. Also good to know that the thick braided wire should also be soldered to the top of the pot.

I feel slightly more confident now!!

If you don't think of them as hot and earth but 'start' and 'finish' ... you will see that it doesn't matter which one is earth or hot ... just one way the 'juice' for the want of a better word is going round in one direction ... if you swap em over it goes the other. This only matters when you are using your pickup with another one as the electrical 'directions' must be the same (in phase). Solder the braid to ground (pot back) and probably the green wire, then your red is the 'hot'. As I say if you have a pair of pickups they should be in phase, so if you get that thin, nasal sound with both pickups on solder the red to the pot back and make green 'hot' ...
Simples (squeak)

[ICBM]

You can also use the cable to your advantage if you like Peter Green. You can either wire the pickup intentionally out of phase, or even fit a switch to give you both options. Peter Green's Les Paul had the pickups out of phase magnetically rather than electrically, but it makes no difference to the effect. You can do the switching with a push-pull pot for one of the controls, to avoid drilling the guitar.

[surfguy13]

Bloody hell, that sounds like a plan! A push-pull pot is an excellent idea and there doesn't seem to be any reason why not to do it as it gives you another sound. Would the push-pull pot replace the volume pot? If so, is the wiring straightforward? Be grateful for any advice on that.

I'll try soldering in the neck pickup tomorrow and go with the red wire at 'hot' and the green as earth - be great if that worked OK.

Really appreciate all the advice, thanks guys....

You can also use the cable to your advantage if you like Peter Green. You can either wire the pickup intentionally out of phase, or even fit a switch to give you both options. Peter Green's Les Paul had the pickups out of phase magnetically rather than electrically, but it makes no difference to the effect. You can do the switching with a push-pull pot for one of the controls, to avoid drilling the guitar.

[ICBM]

It's usually better to use a tone control for a push-pull, especially if you like to finely adjust the volume control - push-pulls often have fairly poor tapers when used for volumes because they're based on cheap-ish mini-pots rather than full-size ones.

The wiring is marginally neater if you use it as a volume though, since the phase switching stays on the same pot. It's also functionally nice since you almost always have to finely adjust the pickup balance when you switch to out-of-phase, to get the best result... and you've then already got the volume knob in your hand when you pull it out .

There's also a problem in some Les Pauls with the thickness of the top in the neck volume control position which can make it hard to get a push-pull to fit there.

The actual wiring is very simple - the pot part is wired exactly as normal, and the pull-switch part is wired in the standard 'X' shape for phase switching... you just extend the lower 'legs' of the X to reach the top and ground terminals on the volume pot, and connect the pickup start and finish (red and green here) wires to the two middle terminals. If you're using the tone pot for the switch you just have to use longer wires between the two pots.

[surfguy13]

Hi ICBM

Brilliant, thanks so much for that....a definite option! However, after my wiring exploits this morning I think I need a bit more advice!!!!

I soldered the red wire, which we're assuming is 'hot' to the outer terminal on the volume pot i.e. as you're looking down on it from the rear of the pot it is the right hand tab. I believe the middle tab is the switch and the left hand tab has a wire soldered to the back of the pot?

I soldered the green wire to the top of the pot along with the braided wire that encloses the 4 thin wires in the cable. Nothing at all! Very strange.....this pickup was and should be working perfectly. Is it possible that I have the wires mixed up? From what has been said so far I get the impression that if I had got the red and the green wires the wrong way round it should still work? I'm assuming that the yellow and blue wires in the heatshrink tubing are for a coil tap option as Thermionic explained?

I have to say I'm not sure where to go from here.....help!!!!!!

It's usually better to use a tone control for a push-pull, especially if you like to finely adjust the volume control - push-pulls often have fairly poor tapers when used for volumes because they're based on cheap-ish mini-pots rather than full-size ones.

The wiring is marginally neater if you use it as a volume though, since the phase switching stays on the same pot. It's also functionally nice since you almost always have to finely adjust the pickup balance when you switch to out-of-phase, to get the best result... and you've then already got the volume knob in your hand when you pull it out .

There's also a problem in some Les Pauls with the thickness of the top in the neck volume control position which can make it hard to get a push-pull to fit there.

The actual wiring is very simple - the pot part is wired exactly as normal, and the pull-switch part is wired in the standard 'X' shape for phase switching... you just extend the lower 'legs' of the X to reach the top and ground terminals on the volume pot, and connect the pickup start and finish (red and green here) wires to the two middle terminals. If you're using the tone pot for the switch you just have to use longer wires between the two pots.