@jim_branning. Wow, thanks for the long and informative reply. I have heard many horror stories like the ones you mentioned from mates in London and Manchester, and have had first hand experience dealing with these types of bluffers in Brixton and in Kilburn. For me, things went a bit more smoothly than you, but you can still see the amount of bullsh*t you have to put up with.
That's why I was even thinking of approaching it as a solo player rather than a band, so I wouldn't have to put up with the bullsh*t of backlines, who goes on first, who gets what. I could just turn up with a guitar and play.......
Oh hell, we've been there more than once. I remember playing a six band bill on a Sunday night at the Shed in Leicester. We went on last, started our set at half past midnight to literally one bar maid who was out the room for most of the set. Even the organiser/promoter had gone home. I got home at 3 AM on a Monday morning seriously considering packing it all in.Originally Posted by monquixote
The problem is that venue owners just think short-term - they book bands who bring lots of their own friends. Unfortunately that means that the terrible band who are playing their first gig are a bigger draw that a well rehearsed band with good songs that are trying to build a genuine fan base. In the long term, people become cynical of unsigned live music because all they ever see are shit bands playing to their mates, so they stop going to venues and the owners wonder why they go out of business.
The sustainable model would be if venue owners actually put on quality acts regardless of draw, and built up their own regular clientèle who knew they could go down to the venue and have a good time even if it was a band they'd not heard of. Unfortunately that takes time and money - much easier to get other people to bring the crowd by exploiting the hard work of naive and gullible beginners.
In my town in Ireland, some venues put on original music every week. Free entry. People seem to head along to check out some new bands. It seems to work. It's easy to get a gig. You ring up, ask can you get a night, and away you go.
I can't speak for Dublin. It's probably a bit harder in the bigger venues. But, in general, it seems to be easy enough to get an original gig in a good few venues in Dublin.
How the heck do so many good bands come out of the UK if this is the way it's always been!
Summed up a good chunk of what's wrong with the UK unsigned scene in two sentences, well done that man.
I am assuming with the population of London (UK in general), that if one band pipes up and says "no, we're not doing the gig", there would be 20 other bands who will go "ok, yeah"...
Because gigging doesn't have much relation to being signed/ commercially successful. The route to success has a lot more to do with knowing people/ making the right connections/ being in a position to put the necessary finances in to promote yourself.
Ooooooooh yes. And that's part of why I said the venue owners/ promoters were "exploiting" bands. When you're just starting out and someone magnanimously says "oh, you can play my venue and if you bring 50 people I'll even split you in on the profit!" You grab the chance with both hands because you think someone is doing you a favour, and this is you set off on the road to stardom. In reality what you're doing is asking all your friends to go and give the gig organiser a load of their money for tickets/ drinks etc, and they do it because they want to support you. You play a gig to people that are already your friends so you make no new fans, having spent your time, effort and money convincing them all to go to your gig. The only person in the relationship who wins is the gig organiser because they get to charge you and all your mates entry fees then sell them drinks.
We're very careful about the gigs we'll actually play now because after 4 years gigging we've realised it's very easy to tire yourself out playing in little clubs and pubs, desperately trying to convince your friends and family to come to yet another gig, while you hardly ever see an unfamiliar face because people just don't want to take a punt on a band they've never heard of.
If you do a gig you need to make sure that you're actually going to play to new people, because that's the only way to build a fan base. And once you have a fan base in an area you need to limit how often you play there, so that people will look forward to your gigs rather than get bored of you.
Also, and this bit is just my opinion, many original bands just think of writing and performing simply as vehicles for being in a band - eg "welp, better write some songs so we can get gigging!", and you end up with a load of derivative bullshit that isn't going to catch the ear of a stranger. You should actually have an interesting style, and write songs that you believe in that have something to say. It should be an appreciation for your art that draws people to your gigs.
I know that's all very utopian but I'm a dreamer.
Last edited by Cirrusband; 6th February 2013 at 03:24 PM.
Well, seeing as I know about 3 people spread across London, one of which has a child, the other two are not into music, I'll always be playing to new crowds! I think I'd nearly start trying to get a support slot first to ease in to it. I guess I'll find out when I get there, and start sussing it out for sure...
Completely agree with Cirrusband, I'm in an originals band that have been plugging our local scene (or lack thereof) for a number of years and haven't really got anywhere.. We do it for the fun of making music but at the same time it would be nice to build up enough of a fanbase that we can gig reasonably regularly. Problem is that noone wants to go and see a new band, especially round here, and you only get your friends who've seen you a billion times to go. You get no new fans and no new gigs. When you get a support slot further afield to try and pick up some new fans, the headliner invariably expects the support bands to bring the people so you get stuck in a seemingly endless, depressing downward spiral. We were approached recently for a gig in leicester by a 'promoter', and were told there would be a PA and kit. We got there, shitty PA and half a kit, absolutely no people whatsoever. That'll be the last time I say yes to a gig without knowing a bit more about it..
Also moving to London next year to go to ICMP so any advice on getting involved in the London scene would be appreciated
The Shed, perchance?
well that guy robert johnson - i might have mentioned he runs a jam night at dingwalls/lock-17 in previous post - anyways he's moved down into camden, two nights now, i'll get the venue details and post them later.. worth going to. they have a backing band of sorts, a drummer, bassist (robert plays bass) etc who can usually jam it if you dont try anything too complicated. just get up and play. it's a good night usually. or you can show up with your own band of mates and play 3 numbers. no pressure to bring anyone, but ity helps if u do of course just to make the nights more populated.
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