Confusion With Major Pentatonic?
I have been hiding away from addressing this issue but I am confused as to where this scale fits(Major Pent).
I hear it is used a lot in Southern Rock/Country etc.
I have heard that Clapton mixes Minor and Major Pentatonics.
The only theoretical thing I know about Major Pentatonics is that eg...A Major Pent is the same "Boxes" as F# Minor Pent, but obviously starting on "A" root.
Ok, so if I am playing to a backing track that is in A minor/C Major on Y.T. I can play the C Major Scale or A minor Pentatonic/A Blues, possibly more but don't confuse me
In this scenario, could you use the C Major Pentatonic too or the A Major Pentatonic? I know I could physically try it out but I would appreciate some real feedback from someone more theory savvy than me.
Is the major and minor pentatonic of the same key dependant on what chords are being played?
Is it usual to play MINOR PENT over a Major chord and vice versa?
At the moment, I am chuffed enough that I have managed to just noodle along to backing tracks in a few keys and not play bum notes too often. I am starting to get to know the fretboard a little better now, but I want to make playback more interesting.
Thank you for any help
Erm ....
Let's start again.
Min Pentatonic - Starts on the root (say A, for Am).
If you want a Maj Pentatonic drop down 3 frets and use the same shape - but don't forget that A is still the root (not F#)
With me so far ?
As for applications - use Maj Pentatonic for major tonalities, occasional blues that are written in major keys, ballads etc.
Blues playing is tricky to explain - but it just works - because usually we all play a Min Pentatonic against a Dom7 chord. Thee min scale shares a b7, and the min3rd is a tolerable note against a Dom7 chord even though a Dom scale has a Maj3rd - but our ears just accept it.
Ok so far ?
So substituions of other Maj/Min pentatonics is as much a matter of taste as theory - try what works for you - but if you want to understand it, or get some hints you'll need to do a bit of Harmonic theory, and look into TriTone subsitution.
Also, Dom7 Pentatonic uses the same trick as Maj Pentatonic, only up 2 frets rather than down.
I learned all of this from Clarky one freezing afternoon in his "studio" (the back bit of his garage !!!
Originally Posted by paultheoneyoulove
Thanks for your help.Erm ....
Let's start again.
Min Pentatonic - Starts on the root (say A, for Am).
If you want a Maj Pentatonic drop down 3 frets and use the same shape - but don't forget that A is still the root (not F#)
With me so far ?
As for applications - use Maj Pentatonic for major tonalities, occasional blues that are written in major keys, ballads etc.
Blues playing is tricky to explain - but it just works - because usually we all play a Min Pentatonic against a Dom7 chord. Thee min scale shares a b7, and the min3rd is a tolerable note against a Dom7 chord even though a Dom scale has a Maj3rd - but our ears just accept it.
Ok so far ?
So substituions of other Maj/Min pentatonics is as much a matter of taste as theory - try what works for you - but if you want to understand it, or get some hints you'll need to do a bit of Harmonic theory, and look into TriTone subsitution.
Also, Dom7 Pentatonic uses the same trick as Maj Pentatonic, only up 2 frets rather than down.
I learned all of this from Clarky one freezing afternoon in his "studio" (the back bit of his garage !!!
I'll look at that in more depth tomorrow. Don't forget I'm am relatively newish to theory. I did mention that A Major Pent is F# Minor Pent shapes, but with "A" as the root in my O.P if you read it again.
I've been listening to songs to see if I can spot the mixing of Maj/Min Pent going on and I thought I spotted it in "Black Dog" by Led Zepp, the Major Pent being the start of the Solo. I could be completely wrong though.
Yes It's used in black dog, also highway to hell he starts with minor then moves to major pentatonic.
I disagree that the minor third is accepted over a dominant seventh chord though, the good players bend the note up towards the major third. Doesn't mean everyone does it but it really irritates my ears when I hear the minor third over a Major chord.
The reason Black Dog and Highway to Hell can have both scales used is the A chords use no third so they have no tonality, therefore it's up to the soloist to choose which sound they want, or both
Both the pentatonics are their respective full-scales with the sharp edges (where semi-tone clashes) ground off.
The notes only in the major-scale are in black, the pentatonic notes are in green.
Major: C D E F G A B
Minor: C D Eb F G Ab Bb
The reason these notes are excluded from the pentatonic is they fidget in the major modes and they create a semitone clash (that means a note is too close to a chord tone and sounds less wholesome).
The semitone clash
Here is C major chord in Green, the major scale in black and the clashing notes in red:
C major: C D E F G A B C
See the notes are too close? I really recommend trying them out to hear this.
The fidget
For this we're going to quickly look at modes, just a quick look as pentatonics dodge the whole mode issue unless you're really determined to reuse the pentatonic patterns.
Major modes with major pentatonic scale.
Lydian: C D E F# G A B C
Ionian: C D E F G A B C
Mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb C
See the notes the modes have that the pentatonics ignore? They fidget. The pentatonics ignore the fidgetting notes. So can be played over Cmaj and Cdom chords.
The pentatonic minor has the same fidget:
Dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb C
Aeolian: C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
Phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C
Patterns:
Most times people talk about pentatonics they're talking about patterns and pattern playing, the pentatonic shapes are a little more complex than barre chords but exist at exactly the same points as barre chords - so can be played all over the neck to provide a map of the right notes to play covering the entire neck. The down side is pentatonics sound white bread so adding extra notes is what gives spice to the playing.
Leslie West
Excellent response there.
It is also great illustration of why it is important to base Fretboard knowledge on pentatonic shapes; if you were to learn Em pentatonic all over the fretboard, you are also learning a skeleton for E Aeolian, E Dorian, E Phrygian, and E Locrian (not that you'll ever need the last one). Simply pop in the fidgets -and it is simple- and you have the full mode.
Same goes for the Major.
Isn't the quote by him something like 'Felix told me that I could use the minor pentatonic over major chords if I just moved it down three frets and once I knew that I could play anything.'
Breeding mammals with insects is my personal bugbear.
Spookily that is exactly the quote I was thinking of when I typed "Leslie West"....!
Well, he never said much else beyond ' you can supersize that.'Spookily that is exactly the quote I was thinking of when I typed "Leslie West"....!
Breeding mammals with insects is my personal bugbear.
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