Confusion With Major Pentatonic?

[Viz]

Every major key has a related minor, and vice versa.

Each related major and minor pair is separated by 3 semitones (frets). The major key is the higher of the two. Eg A major and f# minor.

They are called "related" because they use the same notes.

So if you play random notes from the A major scale, they are indistinguishable from random notes from the f# minor scale.

So if you play f# minor pentatonic, you are by definition also playing A major pentatonic.

The only way a listener can tell which one you are playing is by context, emphasis, start and end point, etc.

So you can play A major pentatonic by slipping down 3 frets and playing f# minor pentatonic, accentuating the A notes and not the f# notes.

Of course you can also play these notes from the A fret. You don't necessarily need to slip down to the f# fret and play the minor pentatonic shape. But of course, if you are staying up on the A fret you can't just obstinately stick to the minor pentatonic shape, because then you will be playing a MINOR pentatonic! Obviously. For example, the second note will not be the 3rd fret above A, it will be the 2nd.

How's that?

[matt1973]

Thanks Matt, I had a go at that, I do get the tonality thing, it's just that I'm that used to playing over a minor backing track. I must be a really miserable person as I love the sound of the melancholy

Could you explain what you meant by "Anchor the scale"?

Cheers

Bit vague that, sorry.

Anchor is my own terminology - not an established term. Why Fret 11? The point I am making there is that there will be a point in your performance where you leave the previous musical phrase / rhythm part / riff and jump into the little major pent I outlined previously...

Now its a given that when you are performing time for concious thought is practically nil, soooo my prescibed way of implementing the wee shape is to plant you middle on fret 11 on the G string. The shape will automatically build around that and I mean that from the point of view of both visualising the scale (in your own mind) and getting in a position where it falls under this fingers. This should smooth the musical transition nicely.

Obviously some people choose other ways of achieveing this so, by all means, experiment!

[Bellycaster]

Bit vague that, sorry.

Anchor is my own terminology - not an established term. Why Fret 11? The point I am making there is that there will be a point in your performance where you leave the previous musical phrase / rhythm part / riff and jump into the little major pent I outlined previously...

Now its a given that when you are performing time for concious thought is practically nil, soooo my prescibed way of implementing the wee shape is to plant you middle on fret 11 on the G string. The shape will automatically build around that and I mean that from the point of view of both visualising the scale (in your own mind) and getting in a position where it falls under this fingers. This should smooth the musical transition nicely.

Obviously some people choose other ways of achieveing this so, by all means, experiment!

I know exactly what you mean now,thanks MATT.

[Bellycaster]

Every major key has a related minor, and vice versa.

Each related major and minor pair is separated by 3 semitones (frets). The major key is the higher of the two. Eg A major and f# minor.

They are called "related" because they use the same notes.

So if you play random notes from the A major scale, they are indistinguishable from random notes from the f# minor scale.

So if you play f# minor pentatonic, you are by definition also playing A major pentatonic.

The only way a listener can tell which one you are playing is by context, emphasis, start and end point, etc.

So you can play A major pentatonic by slipping down 3 frets and playing f# minor pentatonic, accentuating the A notes and not the f# notes.

Of course you can also play these notes from the A fret. You don't necessarily need to slip down to the f# fret and play the minor pentatonic shape. But of course, if you are staying up on the A fret you can't just obstinately stick to the minor pentatonic shape, because then you will be playing a MINOR pentatonic! Obviously. For example, the second note will not be the 3rd fret above A, it will be the 2nd.

How's that?

Yeah, I'm totally with you on that. I understand the positions etc. I have to just become savvy at learning how to play Major Pent licks as I seem to gravitate taste wise to playing in Min Pent/Aeolian Mode and have shunned playing to Maj Pent Backing tracks, but I want to get more things under my fingers so now is the time. I have had a great eye opener with the fidget thing mentioned on page 1, which probably would have come to me on my own but it might have been in a years time or longer. It's great that this thread has started to kick my ass for not looking at some of the obvious things like thinking in NOTES rather than just Shapes.

Thanks.

[Viz]

Cool. Reading it again it was a bit of an idiot's guide. Soz about that, didn't want to dum it down. But I wanted to write the most pure, correct description of the thing that I could. I think most proficient blues guitarists noodle solos over the blues in all positions up and down the fretboard without even thinking whether they are playing in a maj penta shape or its relative min penta shape 3 frets down because they are completely comfortable and familiar playing at any position. Cheers

[Bellycaster]

Cool. Reading it again it was a bit of an idiot's guide. Soz about that, didn't want to dum it down. But I wanted to write the most pure, correct description of the thing that I could. I think most proficient blues guitarists noodle solos over the blues in all positions up and down the fretboard without even thinking whether they are playing in a maj penta shape or its relative min penta shape 3 frets down because they are completely comfortable and familiar playing at any position. Cheers

No worries. It's impossible for anyone to guess what stage someone is at in their knowledge through a question. I'm the worst example possible as my knowledge is here there and everywhere, like I said before there is a lot of the "glue" missing that'll help me bind most of it together. For some reason probably like the one you mentioned, shapes same to be the way I think to prevent going out of key etc. It's hard to find a balance with knowing the notes in rapid fire thinking. I know which scale shapes to play and know that the tonal centre may not be the scale name, but I wonder how proficient you have to become to just see the next note your going to play while your playing your solo and just say, "Right, next note G#" etc. Do you get where I am coming from?

I guess just learning and learning the notes on the neck till your blue in the face must be the answer. I can do it but not that quick

Thanks Viz.

[skoylie]

Just learning the note on the low E and A strings helped me . Then if you know your box patterns you can find your roots and away you go.

Some really good advise given however my favourite has to be,

"You can't play the blues in a pink room "

[StuartBahn]

I like the pink room quote :-)

Some excellent points here. One basic thing that some people seem to miss is simply that of emphasis, i.e. whether a collection of notes is regarded as major or minor pentatonic is all about the emphasis you place those notes and the chords you are playing over. The same is of course true for modes.

Whilst the technical understanding of scales is unquestionably important, the question of emphasis is more fundamental to understanding them. I wouldn't be surprised if BB King doesn't know what a natural 6 is, but he clearly understands how to use the scales in the correct contexts.

[tonyteech02]

Interesting ideas. But shape based. Music theory Nazi here suggests you learn all over the fretboard the scales you are going to use. There are various books including an excellent one by Bruce Saunders on who to use 5 note scales over different chords

Other suggested scales for blues
Country blues scale ie major pentatonic with added flattened third and seventh
Country blues with flattened sixth instead of flattened 7th
Country blues with major seventh and flattened seventh
Minor blues with added major seventh
Mixolydian - major scale with flattened seventh
bebop - dom as mixo with major and flattened seventh
Half whole diminished
Whole tone scales
Altered scale

[StuartBahn]

Interesting ideas. But shape based. Music theory Nazi here suggests you learn all over the fretboard the scales you are going to use. There are various books including an excellent one by Bruce Saunders on who to use 5 note scales over different chords

Other suggested scales for blues
Country blues scale ie major pentatonic with added flattened third and seventh
Country blues with flattened sixth instead of flattened 7th
Country blues with major seventh and flattened seventh
Minor blues with added major seventh
Mixolydian - major scale with flattened seventh
bebop - dom as mixo with major and flattened seventh
Half whole diminished
Whole tone scales
Altered scale

Yes indeed - Blues is often underestimated as a playground for trying out more 'advanced' approaches. Even in just a basic twelve bar you have static and functioning 7th. This alone offers a world of possible approaches; all over the uncomplicated and familiar terrain of blues. Sounds like a good book.