How does one get into an IT Job?

[Myranda_Rose]

There's a few IT bods on this here forum, and there's a squillion IT certifications out there, and one wouldn't want to waste time or money doing stuff that's not going to help.

So I thought I'd get opinions on the entry-level-ist qualifications that I'm looking at.

In no particular order the first 12 qualifications I'm looking at (a years hard studying at one a month - that should be affordable and managable).

Microsoft
Microsoft Technology Associate (MTA), one each of Windows Operating System Fundamentals, Networking Fundamentals and Security Fundamentals - looking at the descriptions on the MS site these are all things I can pretty much do already, so I think these should be first. They're lower level than an MCSA but I figure having them on my CV will look better looking for entry level IT positions than not having them.
MCSA (not sure which to do - thinking windows Server 2012 or SQL). Sure they're pretty low level, but I figure people will recognise one on a CV right away...

CompTIA
CompTIA Strata IT Fundamentals - not a requirement for further qualifications, but again one that I feel I should pass with only minimal learning and it adds another accredition to my CV (also appears to be two exams in the UK which add up to a recognised level of education for the Learning and Skills Council) the website recommends 30 hours of learning per exam for these so easy enough to do spread over a month.
CompTIA A+ so far as I can tell this is a pre-requisit for further advancement in this certificating body's program.
CompTIA Network+ and Security+ these seem to be most in depth ones on the list so probably later in the year and the most work.

Linux Profesional Institute
LPIC-1 - the linux forums seem to say that the higher level ones of these are well respected - on a par with the Red Hat Linux certs, but RH charge £500+vat per exam so far as I can tell... and only deal with the single Red Hat distro... Intriguingly it appears that if I do the same two exams through the CompTIA I can get the "CompTIA Linux+ Powered by LPI", "LPIC-1" and "Novell CLA" certificates all for the same cost

Cisco
CCENT - while ultra entry-level it's also the first half of a CCNA so rather than replace it later I'll be adding to it...

Now. As all of these things will be needing hands on experience I have a plan to build a sort of computer lab of sorts... comprising several Raspberry PI units and some ebay-purchased Cisco routers and switches - which seem to be pick-up-able for little money and finally some network simulations...

Between this lot I should have enough gubbins to create a network with a server an a handful of workstations - on a professional grade network backbone... enough stuff to administer to learn network admin-ing... and later when I want to work towards GIAC C|EH and similar things I can have a network that I can simulate attacks on to learn security, and to attempt to hack into for the C|EH learnings... will be able to remotely access other computers, back-up/install/image computer installations etc... and while normally people might try using virtual machines to do this, my computer tried to melt when I tried running ubuntu as a virtual machine, so I'd not want to try and similate a network on it, where for a couple of hundred monies I should have a "network" of sorts to learn from... I think.

Spread out over the first year I think I'll have laid out about £1500 and a lot of hours, but will have several qualifications with bits of paper to prove it that say I can do some *stuff* on computers... sure I'm not looking at the sort of letters after my name that would get me head-hunted in a snap... but hopefully enough to get me in the door while I concentrate on learning more.

Now. This is my plan as stands - and it's not in order as I don't yet know which order I'd do things. Nothing has yet been set in stone, so I wanted peoples thoughts and ideas to see if I'm mad, or if I'm wasting effort on stuff that wont get any recognition in the UK. I want to work towards Data Security/Penetration Testing/computer forensics type careers, but am adding in a little Network Admin/building skills so that if there's no specialist vacancies about for a bit I've still got options to work in other areas while job hunting.

[monquixote]

I don't work in IT, but I am a software developer who works for a small high tech and I have in the past worked for a huge IT company so I'll add whatever I think is helpful, but others will know more.

The first thing I would say is you need to focus your ambitions. Your number one problem is going to be achieving enough depth in your chosen field to make you employable. If you are going to go Linux you need to go all out in that direction. You need to live in the command line and be able to write bash scripts fluently. That's what people will want if you do a Linux job.
Training courses and certification I am sure will help, but by far the most important thing will be if you appear to have done something useful and in the Linux world that is genrally contributing to an open source project in some way (which you can do even if you can't code).

Again if you are going to go Windows then forget about Linux and go all out that way. Certification will probably be more respected in that area so it's a more viable option.

If you want to get into IT I suggest the penetration testing angle isn't really the best one to take. IT is moving progressively more towards boxed products and the only IT security roles I've actually come across (and I'm talking about IT departments with thousands of people) are more like compliance officers enforcing best practices. With the large IT company I'm working with at the moment penetration testing is done automatically by a product they have installed which scans servers for known vulnerabilities. The only role I could imagine would be extremely highly skilled senior role or as a consultant.

Your idea of the network of Raspberry PI machines is an interesting one, but honestly I don't think you will learn that much. They are arm machines not X86 and for a network admin a single LAN isn't really a very interesting structure. What I would suggest is spending your money getting an Amazon cloud account (you can get quite a bit of stuff for free) and building some machines there. It's a great resource for testing because you can create a hundred servers for an hour and get your hands on some real enterprise class big iron in a way that was impossible for ordinary people a few years ago. Also the IT industry is currently doing a massive shift to the cloud so experience here is a massive asset that not many people have.

My suggestions for getting on the ground would be first line desktop support, which is essentially a scripted monkey job, but will get you in the door. The second would be software testing in which you can go in fairly junior and progress if you are a hard worker with the right mindset.

I could say a lot more, but I'll let you respond before I add any more. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can and feel free to PM me any time you have a question I might be able to help with.

[Axe_meister]

One thing I can say from an Enterprise IT point of view is that windows server is slowly on it's way out.
Linux is very much the way forward. Also think about virtualisation VMware/Xen.
There is always the need for Network engineers. Even more so these days. Also look at cyber security lots if money going into that field at the moment

[octatonic]

I hadn't heard of MTA before so had to look it up.
I suspect the MTA is just a new version of the old MCP, which was a complete waste of time.

If you want M$oft certification then MCSE used to be the way to go.
I got mine in the NT4 days (yes I'm that old).

I started as a support monkey, then went into testing, then (after MCSE) go into networking & security and wound up as a manager.
It was a very different environment though.
It was pre-Y2K and money was great, not many people doing it.
I left in 2004 and from everything I've seen I have no desire to go back to it.
Rates are fairly low, not much contracting about and it has a very corporate feel to it- that might appeal to some people though, but I preferred when it was the wild west.

Another way in could be to go around to small local businesses with 5-10 client LAN's and ask them who is supporting their network.
If they give you a name then ring them up and ask to be an unpaid intern for a few months, a couple of days a week.

When I was contracting I also had a few local businesses that I would support in this manner and I always needed people to fill in when I was onsite at the corp client.

FWIW, When I was a hiring people I wouldn't even look at people with MCP's and no practical experience.
I would try to get a 1st tier support job.
If they require certification then get that and start applying (I don't know anymore- it has been a while).

[Myranda_Rose]

I'm sure no one meant to imply it, but having not been the most emotionally amazing I infered it... so I'll say this now so hopefully no one suggests it further.

I'm not daft, I have applied for a lot of 1st line tech support jobs and never once got a reply... not even a "sorry not interested" letter.

That's why I need to look into getting qualifications, I can not get experience so I have to get qualifications... or perhaps wage a one woman war against IT personnel so there's a massive nationwide recruitment drive for IT types... and yet that's apparently frowned upon in this modern uptight world. Pah!

Right, MTAs out, see that's saved me £275. And three months

MCSE requires an MCSA so a lot of exams if I'm aiming for that as the way to open the door.

I really like the idea of doing an internship but I'm working Monday to Friday and can't get many whole days off without running out of time off pretty fast.

And talk about conflicting information, one post saying that data security is becoming automated so there's no jobs outside of consultants, and the other says lots of money being pumped into data security. No wonder this is a hard industry for me to get into.

And the idea of doing some entry level MS and Linux certs was that I could get my foot in more doors... given how many applications I shot off in the past and the fact that not one has replied I need something...

huh, back to drawing board...

[octatonic]

I had a word with a mate who is still doing it, and is also an IT manager.
It seems that a degree is a prerequisite these days for most roles.

[Myranda_Rose]

I had a word with a mate who is still doing it, and is also an IT manager.
It seems that a degree is a prerequisite these days for most roles.

Not sure I want to wait 6 years to get out of this job doing part time degree and cant' really afford to live doing a full time degree... so as that's not going to happen I have two choices, find another route or give up on IT... if that prerequisit is set in stone I guess it's give up...

Meh.

[WYNIR0]

I've recently interviewed and employed a few guys who went through the training program below.

http://www.justit.co.uk/it_training/personal-training

From my point of view its a good way to get your foot in the door. At that entry/1st line level I'm looking for competence, some level of experience if possible and above all the correct attitude. It's harder and harder to get that start these days and these sort of pay to play training courses would seem to give a good chance from the guys I've interviewed.

[Myranda_Rose]

I've recently interviewed and employed a few guys who went through the training program below.

http://www.justit.co.uk/it_training/personal-training

From my point of view its a good way to get your foot in the door. At that entry/1st line level I'm looking for competence, some level of experience if possible and above all the correct attitude. It's harder and harder to get that start these days and these sort of pay to play training courses would seem to give a good chance from the guys I've interviewed.

Given the point-blank refusal to put any prices on thier site - I cant afford that course...

An MTA course (not just the exam) is £1250 and that course you suggest gives two MS qualifications a level and a half above, plus a compTIA course, my guess would be something in the region of £5000 ish... it's free (upfront) if you're recent IT graduate... but I'm not.

Looking like no matter what I do, unless I suddenly start earning 50 times what I earn now I wont have the money to pay for getting a change of career... or I'll need to get a degree which as previosuly stated isn't going to happen

[WYNIR0]

Given the point-blank refusal to put any prices on thier site - I cant afford that course...

An MTA course (not just the exam) is £1250 and that course you suggest gives two MS qualifications a level and a half above, plus a compTIA course, my guess would be something in the region of £5000 ish... it's free (upfront) if you're recent IT graduate... but I'm not.

Looking like no matter what I do, unless I suddenly start earning 50 times what I earn now I wont have the money to pay for getting a change of career... or I'll need to get a degree which as previosuly stated isn't going to happen

I think it comes in cheaper as they start touting you out while you are doing the course and also get you out on customer sites for experience. However I take your point.

It's a totally different industry from when I got in 20 odd years ago, TBH I'd recommend going into something else. From where I'm sitting it's a meat grinder these days until you get to consultant level.