so the jan rays a timmy clone

[Sporky_McGuffin]

Having had a look at the two schematics there are plenty of similarities, but quite a few differences too. The Jan wossname may well have started as a tweaked Timmy circuit but it's not a clone any more than the Timmy is a Zendrive or TS clone.

It depends, of course, on what you consider a clone and what you consider an evolution, or a "based on". There are only so many ways to create musical distortion in an analogue pedal.

[darcym]

....whilst simultaneously there's the usual crap about the hours of research and the buyers of the damn pedal will talk about how the price is justified by research costs and all the rest.

Stickyfiddle and others have said it all perfectly. Another overpriced bullshit boutique dude fucking around with a few tiny changes who then presents it as some radical new thing and charges the earth for it.

sorry couldn't disagree more,

is it over priced, yes, was it over priced before people started pointing at it as a timmy clone, yes.
Did I care a moments bit of interest about what they said they had done on the web site, researched, developed etc, no.
Did I like the sound of it.....yes
do I like the sound of it now people are pointing at it as a Timmy clone....yes
am I sorry I own one....no
do I wish I could get it cheaper....yes

if this is a 1 / 1 copy of the timmy pedal, I can see how people would be upset at being charged more while taking some ones circuit, as it stands currently in the rumour mill, it's based off the timmy circuit and sounds quite different....so what's the issue ??? you can't get the same sound out of the Timmy, so it's not taking Paul C's business as if you want it to sound like a Timmy, you don't buy the Jan Ray, Timmy is Free to make different versions voice like the Jan Ray or other sounds, and if they did something that sounded like the Jan Ray for say £160 or what ever they charge for a Timmy these days, I'd be all over it, but as it stands

a.) no-one knows the exact differences
b.) the pedals sound different and I'm not aware of an alternative that sounds the same

I just don't understand the anger and the hate, the best thing to do is vote with your feet if you don't like a companies practices, to be honest I don't have a thought either way at this time as I didn't study the website much until Dave made some claims about what they were saying, I heard it was a good pedal, tried it, loved it, bought it.

[citizen68]

[ICBM]

Having had a look at the two schematics there are plenty of similarities, but quite a few differences too. The Jan wossname may well have started as a tweaked Timmy circuit but it's not a clone any more than the Timmy is a Zendrive or TS clone.

The Timmy is certainly very like the Zendrive - which came first? (I genuinely don't know.)

Neither of them Are TS clones though - if anything, they're a combination of a TS-type overdrive stage (the Zendrive has FETS used as diodes as well) with Rat-type tone controls (in the Rat the bass control is fixed, in the Timmy/Zendrive/Jan Ray it's variable).

But - assuming the schematics I've seen are correct - the Jay Ray is even closer to the Timmy than the Timmy is to the Zendrive, it's basically the exact same circuit with a few different values and a couple of extra caps - I find it hard to believe that they were developed independently.

[paultheoneyoulove]

Sad days. There is no justification for what is a rip off (both circuit and price). Yeah, it might get you the sound you want, but they could halve the price. It would still be expensive (150 to 200 quid for a drive pedal IS expensive), but very good.

However, the price worked out for them. If not for the price, it may never have been noticed. Or, had it been cheaper, perceptions would be different - "yeah, it's a great drive pedal but it's no klon" (I really do believe this would have been the case). The fact that it was so exclusive helped. My evidence - freekish blues. People loved the alpha drive, but the joyo was getting average to good reviews (literally the same pcb). People do hear with their eyes (I know I do!) and if it's a cheap pedal, the best review it'll ever get is "it's good for the money". I'm not disputing that the pedal might be the best thing since sliced bread, but that perceptions (and the acceptance of these perceptions) were influenced in the price and the exclusivity. Artists using them was a huge influence - they used the freekish blues, so they must be good, right?

At the end of the day, the price was a fine piece of marketing. I am fully expecting more pedal companies to use it. I wouldn't even be surprised to see brass enclosures. But I suspect some boutique builders will start charging near double what would be 'normal' for a drive pedal. If they sold 400 for 400 dollars each, and it's a 4 man operation, that's a lot of money for a years work. And that's just the Jan ray. And that's assuming only 400 sold.

The worst bit is the years of research bit. It's clearly a modded timmy. There were no 3 years of research, not for this pedal. Not to mention that I was under the impression that brass is not a very good material for shielding... If they wanted that, line it with copper perhaps?

[hywelg]

I saw Matt Schofield last night and he has the Jan Ray on his board, he has dogears and wouldn't have it if it didn't do something very significant for his sound. I didn't ask him about it, but as much as this sh**storm interests me, its also the case that far too many people get overexcited about this sort of stuff.

First, and I grant £300 is a lot to pay for a pedal, but no-one is compelled to buy one, they are worth what people are prepared to pay, so it cannot, in a competetive market possibly be labeled a rip off, Vemuram do not have a dominant market share. The company business model is no business of ours and the only people who have a legitimate reason to raise complaints are those who have bought one, and they seem to be generally happy with their purchase. All other opinions are just that and mostly hot air and righteous indignation.

As for the ripping off of the 'little man', c'est la vie, electronics history is littered with such examples so it seems, and to my mind Paul C seems fairly level headed about it, however if he (Paul C) has a modicum of nous he will switfly bring out a modified Timmy, maybe call it the 'Bobby Ewing' (JR's brother!)

[allicio]

I'm probably being cynical but I've often thought famous players play whatever they can get for free.
Brad whats his face from aerosmith seems to endorse bloody everything!!

[octatonic]

I'm probably being cynical but I've often thought famous players play whatever they can get for free.
Brad whats his face from aerosmith seems to endorse bloody everything!!

It actually works the other way- manufacturers are desperate to get guys playing their stuff.

Mike Landau plays the Jan Ray- he is an absolute tone monster and doesn't play things he doesn't love.
He could make anything sound great though.

[allicio]

I did say I was being cynical!! :-)

[octatonic]

i did say i was being cynical!! :-)

lol.