Modulation Ideas?

[Delphine]

I'm looking for new ways to make sounds and with some software synths it's possible to have any number of things modulate anything but its hard knowing what the hell is going on sometimes.

Like having the filter assigned to modulate Pulse Width. Does anyone know how this is working?

I have a patch set up with a single square oscillator ( I'm using Reasons Thor here ) and I have it on a LP24 filter type. The same filter is used as a source to modulate osc1 PW.

I must point out that it just sound horrible, there are certain 'points' up and down the keyboard where it makes a decent noise but it's just nasty for the most part. How useful the patch may be from a musical point of view is irrelevant to my question - which is: What's actually occurring?

I have other things to say about using other sources of modulation but 1 step at a time.

[Jonny]

lol, how the heck does that work? Presumably the filter is outputting cutoff / centre frequency data while the oscillator PW mod input is expecting +-100% width data. Unless the freq. data is in the form of a fraction of Nyquist.

*Scratches head*

Where's Scot Solida when you need him!

Hmmm, it's filter and not filter envelope?

[Scot Solida]

Thor's filter is self-oscillating. The cutoff controls the pitch of the filter's output. Maybe that accounts for it. I'm not anywhere that I can check it out, but that could be it!

[Delphine]

Self oscillating was on yes, although the res was just set to default. I'm just trying to get my head around what the hells going on when routing stuff.

Is there a way of learning these so as to be able to make modulations and predict the results?

Take this example for instance:

The default 'init' patch on Thor - a single osc in 'osc 1' slot set to saw.

Choosing osc 1 as the modulation source and choosing oscillator 1 frequency ( FM ) as the destination with an amount set to 100, makes pure white noise. This is what I'm talking about. What kind of knowledge do I need in order to know that was going to happen? Would this be a common occurrence with other modular/semi modular synthesizers?

[Scot Solida]

In this last example, it sounds to me like you are performing one of the functions of classic FM synthesis. When using an FM synthesizer, you can send an operator's output back to itself. This is what FM synthesizers call "feedback", and if you played with the feedback control on an operator in, for instance, FM8, you get similarly noisy results at high feedback levels. Technically, if you were to route the output of the osc back to the PITCH, rather than Frequency(FM), you should get closer to the same results that you'd get with an analogue modular. But you don't. It's a lot more extreme on Thor, and not a little digital sounding.

[Delphine]

Thanks. It's hard trying to work out what is actually happening with modulation routing's that differ from what you are used to. Some would argue the importance of knowing such things but I think an element of predictability is a good thing, sometimes it's cool to know where you are going with a sound.

[cruttox]

Can anyone describe what filter FM might sound like, as mentioned on the Blofeld specs? Would that be something you could emulate in Reason or similar?

[Delphine]

Can anyone describe what filter FM might sound like, as mentioned on the Blofeld specs? Would that be something you could emulate in Reason or similar?

What do you mean 'filter FM'?

Is that the filter modulating FM, or FM modulating the filter or something completely different?

[cruttox]

What do you mean 'filter FM'?

Is that the filter modulating FM, or FM modulating the filter or something completely different?

I think it means that the filter cutoff frequency could be FM modulated, as opposed to LFO modulated or swept. I'm struggling to imagine it, especially when you introduce an envelope or LFO to the FM amount.

[Delphine]

I think it means that the filter cutoff frequency could be FM modulated, as opposed to LFO modulated or swept. I'm struggling to imagine it, especially when you introduce an envelope or LFO to the FM amount.

These are the things I was getting at in this thread myself. I'm still using Reason as one of my software synths and the new Thor has a huge array of weird routings that I have no idea what to expect half the time, I'm not sure there's an independent 'FM' parameter to use as a modulation source as such.. Maybe that's unique to the Blofeld?

If I were to try anything remotely along that line, I'd have to select an FM module for an oscillator slot and map the FM amount knob to be modulated by filter cut off ( can't do it the other way around ) This, when set to a low amount like 40% feels like a dry/wet mix and you can hear a very fast rate doing *something* to the sound - which I'm not sure how to describe.

In fact, when using say filter cut off or something other than LFO to modulate something, there seems to be a set clock rate for the modulation speed. This is very high and I'd like to know what is controlling this speed and whether it could be slowed down or not. Certainly, your idea of modulating the modulator with an LFO may yield interesting results, I'll give that a go when I get chance.