You could make a cake, not knowing what it's going to turn out like, and like the result better than what it was "meant" to turn out like!Originally Posted by antonioctd
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yes. fair enoch.
But you still need to know how to make the cake in the first place. All the ingredients, how to put then together, hey, you even need to know that you need to put in the oven to cook it!!
You learn that by looking into recipes and making "standard cakes" from there. Or at least one...
Urrr, actually, I believe 100% in what I just said, otherwise I woudnt have said it.
Yes, when I first started learning an instrument, I played along to songs at home. And I'm not denying that you gain writing inspiration or pick up techniques from listening to other bands. But that isn't the situation we're talking about here.. Our thread starter has an accomplished level of technique and skill, but falls apart in a band environment. In my opinion, THE best way to find yourself and your style with other musicians is to write/play original stuff together. Don't understand why anyone would have an issue with that. Why would it be better to stand there trying to copy someone elses playing, with the addeed pressure of everyone else knowing what it 'should' sound like...? It's not about cake, it's about bands... keep on topic, eh..? ;-)
@ Jase re: gigs. What's so hard about getting gigs when you play original stuff...? I've never played covers and I've been gigging for bl00dy years, as have thousands of other bands. How many signed bands do you think got famous for playing covers (aside from that Mark Ronson ******)..?. Sorry, but I find that quite an absurd thing to say....
That's a very interesting point. And I believe we can have a very educational chat here.
What if we consider this:
The thread starter is asking for help regarding playing SONGS in a band situation. Is my honest believe that the best exercise will be to actually play SONGS in a band situation. That way he will grow has a musician and develop the skills necessary to actually play what he hears in his head. And, in my opinion, that's the point!
If he learns to play coldplay he is learning to create ambient and mood in a band situation. So that he can do it when he hears it in his head in an inspirational moment .
If he plays red hot or ac/dc he is learning to create really tight syncopation
If he plays Santana he is learning to create really fluid and tasty melodies
If he plays metallica he is learning to create a tick tight wall of rhythm
and so on....
And in my opinion is of vital importance that he does it in a band situation. It's the best way to actually feel how is like creating this sounds with a band and how they actually work.
Imagine that you are rehearsing with a band and have created a very good song . Now there is a part where you would really love to hear some syncopation (maybe in the bridge) . Actually, you are hearing it in your head. But you never played any song with syncopation. So you will probably have problems to pull that off.
Now, if you were in a red hot tribute band I'm sure you would pull that of on the fly!!
Of course this is just an imaginary example. But do you get my point?
And in my opinion, the personal music style is described this way:
(music you listen more often + the music you actually like) / music you can actually play
Of course this debatable and many will disagree.
But that's why I write it here. I love to listen to opinions and learn from them.
So, bring it on! Can't wait
I'm not saying anything about what works for you, I love writing original material myself, and have played both original material and covers in bands over the years. But listen to the original poster and think about the relevance of your post. Not everyone is destined to set the rock n roll world alight - I'm in my mid 30's, I don't think a record deal is going to be coming my way any time soon, now... There's a huge market for covers bands, and there's a huge number of people who enjoy jamming the stuff. The only absurdity that's been posted is the stipulation of "NO COVERS!", IMO.
Bad music for bad people.
I've just skimmed through the three pages so far (so apologies if I've missed anything) and while there's been lots of good advice I feel the op's problem is one of confidence. Nerves can be a crippling thing and some of the most talented players can be terribly affected. It sounds like Robbobob has done all the right things (I wish I could sightread!) but jamming with others is a completely different discipline to playing to backing tracks - a backing track won't end up in a train wreck if someone makes a mistake, it'll just keep going. At the start, jamming (and ultimately playing in a band) is all about keeping tempo, not letting any mistakes affect your playing and just feeding off the general vibe (i.e. having fun!).
Get together with another guitarist in an informal setting and just jam some middle ground material - you'll soon find something you're both enjoying. It's daunting to begin with but please realise that if someone plays a bum note then nobody will die and nothing will catch fire! Most "old hands" would be more than happy to help a newbie along and doubtless you'll be able to teach them a trick or two as well. Playing with others (and therefore gaining confidence) is as much an essential discipline as playing to a backing or jamming to random stuff on the radio or practicing scales, and once the first night nerves start to settle it's a lot more fun.
If it's any consolation I used to suffer from nerves to the point where I would write "remember to enjoy yourself" on the bottom of my setlist...
I agree that it's probably an issue of confidence, and contrary to what others have said, I'm not that interested in playing others' songs (although i understand the cake analogy). I just suppose it's an issue of experience.
I mentioned before that i know how to play guitar, so if someone sat in front of me and said 'ok, key of e today and it's a II V verse and I IV V chorus' I'd be made up with that because that's not really jamming at all, it's just understanding the sentence. My issue would come in with an unplanned session where things just happen, i'd probably just end up a beat behind their changes trying to keep up.Get together with another guitarist in an informal setting and just jam some middle ground material
I suppose i sound like some uncreative robot, but i suppose practice makes perfect.
Yup. Just take the first step (and stop worrying)
Just a thought: Couldn't it be an ear problem... Try to practice jamming over songs in the radio. That way you never know what key is gonna be next.
Just an idea thougth....
OK, this isn't a covers vs original thread and it isnt a gigging thread either. Neither of those are discussions i'd venture into cos I know there are plenty of covers fans out there so it'd be a waste of all our time to extole their relative virtues yet again.
As has been acknowledged, its an issue of confidence. My point was, and still is, that I think you can build confidence more effectively by playing original stuff, because you're not being constantly compared to a note perfect/tone perfect recording. An original song, and the parts within it, will either be good or not so good. No-one can ever say 'that was OK, but john frusciante has got a better tone than that' or 'your playing isn't quite up to John 5's standard' or whatever.... your only frame of reference is the song itself and each other, therefore all the feedback relates to YOU (your tone, your playing and your writing) and not someone else.
It seems more that the issue is also more connected with freeform jamming as opposed to 'playing with others' as the title suggests. On this, I'm totally with you. I also prefer to work out a rough structure/series of progressions and then work around that. I'm not into freeform jams at all. Bands all work/write differently, so if you're playing with guys who prefer to freeform then it might help to agree a few ground rules with them up front to help you out.
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