HELP:Which DSP Card to get: Powercore, UAD-1, Pulsar XTC?

[quodos]

I got the dough for any of these 3 DSP cards that work with Cubase VST:

TC Works Powercore
Creamware Pulsar XTC
Universal Audio UAD-1

with no regard for price, which one of these would be my best option?
I want to run 1 of these cards thru Cubase VST 5.1r1 and Wavelab, thats it in terms of what software i use.
any opinions. thanks. i need to run extra fx like reverb, delay, compression, etc. but having vsti running on any of these would be nice too. weigh in.

ok right clarification on what im lookin for:

1) i want a card that will help me get a good mix without taxing my PC's CPU
2) Pro quality mixing tools (comp/eq/fx), reverbs, etc.
3) expandability - instruments/synths that run on the DSP card are nice, not my #1 priority but could tip the decision for me

quodos

oh btw. anyone know where i could get the lowest prices on these 3 as well?

[toaster]

wish I could help, but I'm in the same boat... hope someone can give some good feedback. Personally, the UAD looks great, but haven't tried one. I'm sure TC's is good, as all their shit is top class.

cheers,
john

[andyeb]

To be honest, I think you would be better off putting the cash towards a faster PC (IMHO).

Andy

[Uberl]

DSP cards are well worth it, even upgrading your computer still leaves you having to buy native EQ and compression, and whilst the Waves stuff etc isn't crap it is pricy and still not quite as good as the UAD compression and EQ.So lets say that a mobo/CPU/memory upgrade is about £400 and the Waves native powerpack is about £470, thats near enough 900 quid. Compare that to the £600 for the UAD and its a no-brainer, even if you don't factor in the PC upgrade the UAD effects are still easily worth the extra £130.

I've got 2 Creamware cards and the UAD, since you are after mainly mixing tools I'd say get the UAD. The one minor downer is that the UAD reverb is just "OK".Don't get me wrong, it's one of the best software reverb's around apart from the Pro Tools/TDM stuff, I just think hardware reverbs sound better, even something like a Lexicon MPX100 sounds better to me than any software reverb.The Pulsar's main strengths are it's synths, for mixing the UAD EQ/comp is better.

Any 'O' this 'elp :?:

[andyeb]

One of the biggest "issues" I have with DSP cards is that they can't accelerate your bog-standard VST/VSTi plugins; that means you are locked into using whatever plugins are specifically enhanced for the card in question.

Also remember that in 18 to 24 months, the raw CPU power available at the cutting edge of the PC market will be roughly double what it is now.

It is possible to draw comparisons with the graphics card market. I went out and bought one of the original 3Dfx voodoo cards because my P150 wasn't fast enough to play my favourite flight sim at the time. Now the 3Dfx card is gathering dust in a cupboard because modern PCs are fast enough to do a better job in software (it also happens to be incompatible at a hardware level with Athlon systems, but thats life and the cost of progress!!).

All I'm saying is that if you are going to put money into a DSP card, bare in mind that it will be junk sooner or later, whereas if you get a fast PC now and a bunch of really nice VST plugins (that will run on both Mac and PC), you aren't tied in and they will still work in 5 years time when todays DSP cards an obsolete junk like my 3Dfx card ;-).

Andy

[Uberl]

Its totally true that DSP cards only run the plugs that come with the card, they ain't meant to take over all the host load, just offload the CPU heavy FX.

Its true that computers are getting faster, but DSP cards are here right now and more importantly the UAD has better quality FX than any other native plugs I've heard, granted its not massive but it does make a difference to an overall mix.A UAD mix does sound cleaner and fatter than a Waves mix, I've used both and thats what I think anyways.

You may be right saying the cards are junk in 5 years, but then your average PC is too, maybe, whatever it ain't gonna stop working is it? Who's to say VST plugs will still be going in 5 years time, it's already splintering. Emagic have gone with Audio units and Sonar uses DXi's.
Everything is redundant sooner or later, just get the best you can at the time.I ain't lookin to start a pointless debate about native v hardware v DSP, I just think that after trying the various options that DSP cards give me a better sound than just using totally native plugs. For the £600 odd the UAD costs you won't find better EQ or compression, simple as that :wink:

[Red]

I think a comparison to an audio based DSP card and a GFX card is slightly misleading there andy. After all, its a collection of CPU's designed to run a specific set of software effects and instruments. Once you have one you will stil be able to run those software effects and instruments in 1, 2 or 10 years time. I have tried both the UAD1 and I have a TC Powercore installed in my music PC. I havent had the pleasure of a PULSAR system to date (although I have used the LUNA2 which to me didnt have quite enough grunt), but andy jones raves about his (he has a rack of PULSAR XTC's in his PC) and coming from a hardware hardhead it must be good...

For effects the TCP absolutely rules. The reverb models are surprisingly good and at least compare very well to their hardware counterparts (I would be hard pushed to tell 'em apart anyhow). You get the TC01 VSTi which is an excellent monophonic synth with a really dirty edge, much along the lines of the Mercury 1, and the mastering plugins are phenomenal. Roumor has it that an exact replica of the Access virus is gonna be released on the TCP - it uses the same motorola DSP's so implementation is relatively straight forward. Thats said I aint holding my breath just yet

The UAD1 is equally as versatile (NIGEL is totally awesome) and the GUI's look better although I rekon some of the the effects are not quite up there with the Powercore in some respects - the Reverb is OK (take that as much better than any software reverb I have ever come accross) but not quite the TC Mega Reverb. That said the UAD 1 is much easier to use, although to be fair, both have a bit of a learning curve.

Theres also the problem of latent response. In terms of andys statement, this is where the current crop may fall down in 5 years time - heres hoping that the UAD-2 (?) will sort out the latency. Let me explain. Insert a DSP card effect to a track and that track will be delayed by a a few milliseconds. This is noticable. To address this, the cards both come with a software compensator. You set up a group track in your sequencer and send any inserted channels to it and the delay is sorted out. This can be a bit of a hurdle for some users, for instance the TC Powercores compansator does not work through any VSTi wrapper that I am aware of and therefore SONAR users will not be able to use insert effects, only sends (and even then all tracks will need to be routed to that aux, even with no effect degree applied). I understand that the UAD-1 compensator does now work (thanks to the hard work of Angus over at FXpansion) so SONAR users sghould definately plump for the UAD-1.

I would look heavily at what you need and concider which card gives you it. In my opinion, the average joe looking for a great all rounder and a few neat tricks should go for the UAD-1 (especially if they are SONAR users). If your looking for something designed for mastering and reverbs in particular (not to mention the excellent voice strip) then the Powercore it is. Either way, if you used to software effects you'll be blown away by both...

Hope this helps,

Red

[tvband]

i've got a UAD and it sone of the best purchases ive ever made. the comments about the reverb are justified but i bought it for the compressors and pultec eq. they are absolutely incredible. once you've used the LA2A or 1176 compressors you'll know why u stumped up for the card. the hardware versions of these are industry standards and cost a couple of grand each, with the card you get to run a few of them!!
agreed theres not that much else on the card but if ur main concern is to have better sounding tracks sonically then nothing can touch it. the latency is a bit shit but u get that on the tc powercore aswell and theres an easy workaround.

[andyeb]

I think a comparison to an audio based DSP card and a GFX card is slightly misleading there andy.

Well, of course they ain't the same thing, but it was the closest example dedicated-purpose computer hardware you might buy to optimise a PC for a particular purpose.

My point of view came from the logic: "I can either spend XXX quid on a dedicated card, or spend XXX quid on standard PC components to do the same thing and get a faster system thrown in too".

I _had_ overlooked the fact that these DSP cards actually provide better quality effects...

...but personally, I think I would have to be nearing pro status in order to justify better quality FX/plugins. At the moment the technology is ahead of my music, rather than the technology holding my music back.

Andy

[red99]

what is latency like for playing VST instruments with any of the three cards mentioned ?