scale tone chords

[stringsthings]

*unleashed.

i stand corrected

[clarky]

Assuming you're using harmonic minor for chords, it should be something like this (I think):

Amin(maj7)
Bmin7b5
Cmaj7(#5)
Dmin7
E7
Fmaj7
G#dim7

big ol' tick in da box

Not sure what you mean by a 'scale tone chord' though - do you just mean a diatonic chord? I'm sure someone else can be more help.

maybe he means:
chords that are diatonic with / to the scale of A harm min?

[clarky]

The "rule of thumb" for making up chords from scales is "play a note, miss one, play a note, miss one, play a note".

So in A minor:

A B C D E F G A B C

A-C-E (minor)
B-D-F (minor)
C-E-G (major)
D-F-A (minor)
E-G-A (minor)
F-A-C (major)
G-B-D (major)

If you want to you can add in the extensions.

totally... "stacking in 3rds"

once you have the notes though, you'll need to be able to "spell" the chord

basic rules of triads:
major = root, major 3rd, perfect 5th
minor = root, minor 3rd, perfect 5th
diminished = root, minor 3rd, diminished 5th
there are more of course, and then there are the 7ths, extensions and suspensions, but I think that little list wi'll do for now... at least so the guys learning this stuff can get to grips with it..

[clarky]

I'm just wondering why you (arbitrarily?) used G6 and Cadd9 when all the others are straight triads? Of course, if you're doing this simply because it sounds good, that's great, but there is a system for extending diatonic chords...

Cmaj7, Dm7, Em7, Fmaj7, G7, Am7, Bm7b5

The add9s then follow the basic triad pattern, except for Em(add b9) and Bdim(add b9), and it's similar for the 6ths... they follow the basic maj/min pattern except for Em, Am and Bm7b5, where you have to add flattened 6ths.

I'm wondering if - please don't take this the wrong way seany - our friend asking the question didn't have all the information he needed to correctly spell the chords..
so he had a good stab at it trying to understand the chords as best he could based around his current chord vocabulary...
essentially.. guessing without having really nailed the rules of spelling chords maybe??

so.. I'm guessing that there are a couple of easily pluggable gaps in his knowledge....

which of course gives us all the opportunity to offer lots of advice, voilently dissagree, flounce off in various huffs and leave the poor fella more confused than when he asked the question... LMAO...

EDIT: it's late and I'm tired... so I could have completely misunderstood this thread...
in which case... shoot the messenger...

[seany65]

Sorry it's taken so long to reply (that should be in my signature, lol!)

I'll try to explain more clearly what I'm trying to do.

1) Learn the notes of a particular Major scale and it's natural minor and harmonic minor relatives. Which in this case are C Major and A natural and A Harmonic minor.

2) Replace each seperate note with a chord of the correct type eg. C note replaced by one of the C Major chords, D note replaced by one of the D minor chords, E note replaced by one of the E minor chords, etc.

3) Hoping therby to get from single note scales to scales made up of chords. For example

From : C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C.

To: C Major, D minor, E minor, F Major, G Major, A minor, B Dim, C Major.

With each type of chord being from the 'set' of correct chord types for that particular place in the scale. eg. In the above scale the B chord can be either BDim, B halfDim or Bm7b5.

I have enough information to do this for Major scales. What I Originally wanted to ask was:

What happens to the B Dim type chord when it moves to the 2nd position in either of the A minor scales? Does it stay a B Dim type or does it change?

And what happens to the G Major chord when it moves to the 7th position in the A minor natural scale, does it change from a G Maj type to G Dim type? And does it change to a G#Dim in the A minor harmonic scale?

I know how to make a chord from alternate notes of a scale, I just want to know what types of chords to use in the 2nd and 7th places of a relative minor scale that's been made up of chords.

I find it easier to practice and remember chords after choosing particular chords to put in scales like this.

[sfocata]

Hi Seany, just in case you don't read this for a while, happy 2011!

What happens to the B Dim type chord when it moves to the 2nd position in either of the A minor scales? Does it stay a B Dim type or does it change?

In the C major scale, the B dim triad is formed with the 7th, 2nd and 4th (BDF) and that maps exactly to the 2nd, 4th and 6th of the A natural minor and harmonic minor.

With the A melodic minor (A B C D E F# G#) you've then got an F#, so the second chord is BDF#... B minor.

And what happens to the G Major chord when it moves to the 7th position in the A minor natural scale, does it change from a G Maj type to G Dim type? And does it change to a G#Dim in the A minor harmonic scale?

When moving from C major to A natural minor, nothing changes, because the chords contain exactly the same notes. As you already know, there's no G in the harmonic and melodic minor, but there is a G#, and in both cases the diatonic triad is G#BD, so G#dim.

So, in summary...

C major = C Dm Em F G Am Bdim

A natural minor = Am Bdim C Dm Em F G

A harmonic minor = Am Bdim Caug Dm E F G#dim

A melodic minor = Am Bm Caug D E F#dim G#dim

[seany65]

Thank you sfocata. You've answered my questions exactly. On top of that, you've added another type of chord for me to learn namely, the augmented chord. I'll go away and think about this stuff for a while and then try to apply it to different Major/relative minor scale combos and check on here to see if I've understood properly.

[seany65]

Just a note for anyone who wants similar information for their own use.

Since starting this thread I have bought "Complete Learn to Play Rhythm Guitar manual" by Peter Gelling.

In the 2003 edition I have:

on page 78 Lesson 21, "scale tone chords", it shows an example of the 'C Major scale' using chords instead of single notes.

On page 79 (still in that lesson), it has the 'G Major' scale using chords instead of single notes.

On page 89 Lesson 24, "minor key scale triads", it shows the 'A Natural minor' scale using chords instead of single notes.

On page 92 (still in Lesson 24), it shows the 'A Harmonic minor' scale using chords instead of single notes.

On page 93 (still in that lesson), it shows the 'A Melodic minor' scale using chords instead of single notes.

On page 91 (still in that Lesson), it shows the 'E Natrural' minor scale using chords instead of single notes.

Using these examples, it should be possible to build any minor scales using chords instead of notes,
once the notes of the Major scale have been learned and the chord replacements for those Major scale notes have been chosen.