Intonation issue

[musicegbdf]

OK here's the thing. I was noticing my double bends did not sound right, so I decided to check my bending with a electronic tuner. Yep bending up pretty accurate , but noticed as I am bending up the bent note the static note is going flat ! Now I could understand if i was moving my finger the static going sharp , but not flat.

The guitar is a PRS CU 22 with trem , could it be the trem ? If it is what need adjusting

[georgeguitars]

when u bend its like prushing the whammy bar down. i.e if i bend D to E on the 3rd (G) string whilest lettin the open low E string ring though at the same time, the E string would drop in pitch slightly during the bend.

[musicegbdf]

So when I am doing a unison bend say B on top E and bending 2nd string 10th fret A up to B the static note (on top E ) goes down about 15 cents so the note I am actually bending to whilst in tune to the (now flat B)
I am flat to the rest of the song. ! Is this right ? Do trem players never use unison bends , or do they just accept the note will be wrong ?

Must admit I only have the one guitar fitted with trem , all the others are hard tail so had not noticed it before.

[sfocata]

So when I am doing a unison bend say B on top E and bending 2nd string 10th fret A up to B the static note (on top E ) goes down about 15 cents so the note I am actually bending to whilst in tune to the (now flat B)
I am flat to the rest of the song. ! Is this right ?

Yep. Basically, the tremolo is a fulcrum, balanced between the strings and the springs. When you bend a string, you increase the overall tension on the string side, causing the trem to move forward, which then lowers the tension of the strings, causing them to go flat. In fact, they *all* go flat, but most guitarists instinctively push the bent string a little further to compensate.

If you want to be able to use the trem normally, there's no solution, really... just one of those things that people put up with. I find that I instinctively bend the static string slightly in oblique bends.

[Sir Axeman]

oblique? Hmm that sounds pretty clever.

I guess this is one of the reasons some folks detest trems.

[musicegbdf]

Well you live and learn.
It all makes sense really.
I was getting ready to do some home recording when I noticed this. Lucky that I also have a hard tail which I can use instead when I want to play with unison bends.
I will try the slight bend on the static as an exercise some other time. Sounds as tricky as the "hendrix" trick of catching other strings on the way down from a bend. I have only just managed that !!!

Thks Guys..

[guitargeek62]

A tremsetter should fix it, cant remember which of the two types is better for it though

[BlindLemonAde]

On a strat, you can "block" the trem by gluing a shim of wood between the tone block on the back of the trem, and the guitar body, then tighten up the trem springs so the block is held fast.

If the spring tension is sufficient, the bridge won't move during unison bends, so the pitch remains static. You can still use the whammy bar for down-bends, but not up-bends... but only Jeff Beck ever does that, so as long as you never play "Where Were You", you'll be OK...

[sfocata]

oblique? Hmm that sounds pretty clever.

Nah, it's yer standard country-ish thing... bend G string, 12th fret, while holding B string, 13th fret.

[sam_m]

You mean 'pedal-steel' bends? Never heard them called that before.

Sound ace though.