Kick Drums Don't sound right :(

[Ramteen]

Hi folks.

I'v got a question here. There's one thing about Kick Drums that makes me wonder so much and I'v reached to a point that I really don't know what to do.

My Kick drums always sound too loud and when I turn them down then they don't have enough energy. I'v tried so much manipulating the EQs and filters and
stuffs like that, but they did no good to it. The thing that bothers me the most is that when I listen to the well produced Musics (House and Techno), I realize that their
Kicks are not as loud, But they have enough and sometimes so much Bass and sense of energy in them and at the same time easy to listen to.

I wonder if that's something they do in post producion while mastering the tracks or there are technincs being used throughout the mixing process.

Any help or Suggestion would be much appreciated
Thanks

-Ramtin

[smokingbeagle]

Compression is usually the key to punchy drum sounds - I don't often work outside of 'real' instruments but a couple of tricks to try:

1/ Use side-chain compression on other bass instruments, with the kick drum channel in the side-chain. Depending on your settings (too many variables to go into here, experiment!) this'll make the other instruments 'duck' in level when the kick drum sounds, giving it a bit more sonic space.

2/ Limit the kick drum. Use a nice subtle compression ratio (3:1, maybe) on it up to a point, then strap a limiter across it and adjust threshold to suit. This should mean you can raise the level of the kick without pushing the rest of the track into clipping.

3/ Experiment with multi-band compression on the kick if your sequencer has it. If you can compress the low-end of the drum sound more than the high end, you'll stop the bottom end (where the 'punch' is) from pushing your track into clipping but preserve the transients of the top end which are often what gives a drum sound its perceived energy.

Hope that helps - and welcome to the forum! Ian

[Ramteen]

Hi

Nice to meet you mate. Well I tried to reduce the frequencies around 100 Hz, and it turned out pretty well. however I'm not as happy as I could've been with my Kick Drum. Maybe I should go back and gather a better sample and process it again. So if any on else has more to share I'll really appreciate it

Thank you so much smokingbeagle =P

-Ramtin

[Danny1969]

Like Beagle I mainly only have experience in processing regular drums but here's a few tricks that might work in your case

Put the Drumagog plugin on the kick track, that will allow you to change your current kick to any kick sample you want on the fly. It also allows you to "steal" kicks from other records if the kick can be heard on it's own at least once. You can also adjust the balance of your existing kick with the balance of the triggered sample. So sometimes you use Drumagog to beef up rather than replace completely whats there.

Try notching out a gap for it EQ wise in all the other tracks. This helps keep it very present in the mix without being overly loud in the mix.

Try the Waves Max Bass plugin .... that can really beef up kick and bass if used in moderation.

[Noctuary]

You could always try a transient shaper? Flux BitterSweet does a v. good job...Free, too!

[tehLORD]

It's just as important to cut other parts EQ around the kick as it is to EQ the kick itself. Try putting a HPF on every track as well, it'll give you more headroom to play with.

[trolley]

I know it's metal, but my lad has triggers & they feed a sampler. It's what most rock bands do these days. You can have whatever sound you have a sample for.
I imagine most dance/techno stuff (if it's done on a kit) will be triggered & sampled.

[seedyproductions]

i'd recommend the vengeance sample packs. or stealing a kick off of a commercial track. if these dont have the power your looking for then its your mix thats letting it down. try some of the techniques above.

[*Noodles*]

My Kick drums always sound too loud and when I turn them down then they don't have enough energy. I'v tried so much manipulating the EQs and filters and stuffs like that, but they did no good to it. The thing that bothers me the most is that when I listen to the well produced Musics (House and Techno), I realize that their
Kicks are not as loud, But they have enough and sometimes so much Bass and sense of energy in them and at the same time easy to listen to.

I wonder if that's something they do in post producion while mastering the tracks or there are technincs being used throughout the mixing process.

Any help or Suggestion would be much appreciated
Thanks

-Ramtin

So here goes..

They sound loud compared to ...?
Everything?

Or just the vocals? guitars, synths etc? (see what I mean,.. try and identify more specifically what the problem is)

How loud are you listening to tracks?
Low end energy sounds vastly different at different levels, so consider that when mixing (if it's a club track, then less hi-end is advisable).

Techno will usually side chain the whole track (without the vocals) to the kick, so you'll get a "sucking" effect when the kick goes off which adds that effect you'll recognize.

Also, consider what part of the audible frequency spectrum your kick is in.
What is it sharing with? A really deep synth?

Consider EQing them to complement, not work against each other (notch out the kick fundamental harmonic from the synth, to help the kick sit better)..
Try and make sure that there's energy in all of the spectrum - and don't think that EQ for a low sound doesn't effect the high end, it's all related.
So an overall boost at the mid range (or high) may solve a problem of bass heavy mixes.

Your listening position (and volume) will also increase the problems if it's not *roughly* accurate... If you're using headphones, remember that they will cause hyper extension in the low end.

If you could post up a clip, and maybe some reference links.. there are loads of people on here who can help!

[*Noodles*]

I know it's metal, but my lad has triggers & they feed a sampler. It's what most rock bands do these days. You can have whatever sound you have a sample for.
I imagine most dance/techno stuff (if it's done on a kit) will be triggered & sampled.

A lot of bands do use triggers, but unless they're "metal" - it will usually be combined with a live performance kick, with the kick filling the sound out.

This isn't really applicable (unless it's electronic drums) on a techno track. Most likely the drums will have been sequenced!