Tune the kick to the song and it fights the bass?

[vorax]

I've read a lot of electronic producers talking about tuning the kick to the song. Sounds logical to me. I also read a lot of producers talk about frequency slotting and choosing a kick that doesn't fight the bass for frequency space. SO, for example, in drum and bass, you might have a sub thats peaking around 60hz, and so choose a kick that peaks at 80 or 90hz. Again, perfectly logical. The obvious issue here is that if you tune the kick to the root note of the song, it will share the same fundamental frequecies as the bass and therefore fight for space. I guess the obvious remedy here would be to key sidechain compression on the bass off the kick, but I was just wondering which approach people find most effective -tuning the kick to the song, or pitching it to a frequency where it will have its own slot? Or are there other approaches?

[tehLORD]

If you're kick is tuned to the song you can probably low cut the bass enough for them not to compete at all. Your ear will hear the bass as being quite bassy anyway I would imagine. Other than that I tend to always sidechain my bass parts to the kick anyway if they hit on the same note.

edit - just been to your myspace page, I love that fiddy remix

[vorax]

just been to your myspace page, I love that fiddy remix

Cheers bro! I had a lot of fun with that, so I'm glad someone else appreciates it!

[tehLORD]

Cheers bro! I had a lot of fun with that, so I'm glad someone else appreciates it!

You still didn't add me you miserable fucker

[Delphine]

I've read a lot of electronic producers talking about tuning the kick to the song. Sounds logical to me. I also read a lot of producers talk about frequency slotting and choosing a kick that doesn't fight the bass for frequency space. SO, for example, in drum and bass, you might have a sub thats peaking around 60hz, and so choose a kick that peaks at 80 or 90hz. Again, perfectly logical. The obvious issue here is that if you tune the kick to the root note of the song, it will share the same fundamental frequecies as the bass and therefore fight for space. I guess the obvious remedy here would be to key sidechain compression on the bass off the kick, but I was just wondering which approach people find most effective -tuning the kick to the song, or pitching it to a frequency where it will have its own slot? Or are there other approaches?

There's a difference between notes here and frequencies. Also, unless you have a drawn out decay on an 808 kick, most other kicks don't really carry a definite pitch. Because of the way kicks are made, esp. synthetic, you'll often find a fast ramp of pitch like a pitch modulation. That's where the punch will come from with most synthetic kicks ( not always - but a lot of the time )

Anyway, this makes it difficult to get any idea of pitch as there will be differences along the duration of the kick. So when you tweak a kicks pitch by ear, you're really getting an overall sense of pitch. Given that a bass like your sub bass would have an ample amount of sustain, there's no earthly reason to have sustain in the kick if the two are coinciding.

With that in mind, that would only leave the possibility that both are sharing the same low frequency range and one needs to be HP filtered to sit above the other. Even if the kick were to be an exact pitch, it wouldn't matter.

There's another thing too though, sometimes if there's an attack portion to the bass, it can interfere with the attack transient of the kick, since that transient is vital for allowing the kick to pull through a mix, you could do a number of things.

1. Sidechain
2. Automate the attack of the bass for a longer attack at times when the bass and kick coincide. ( providing you want to retain a bit of attack in the bass during times when they do not coincide )
3. Pull the bass a few ticks forward with snap to grid turned off.

You could try all those things and HP filtering the kick above the bass, adjust your levels and then compress the two parts together so they 'glue' dynamically.

[tehLORD]

You could try all those things and HP filtering the kick above the bass, adjust your levels and then compress the two parts together so they 'glue' dynamically.

Never thought of doing that before. Would you buss the kick and bass(es) out to do that?

[Delphine]

Yeah, just group the two together depending on your daw app. Works well if you have got bass and kick around the same level and bass has a bit of attack to it, just so the peaks register a little and the dynamics are kind of glued together.

I don't use compression over the master though.

[vorax]

You still didn't add me you miserable fucker

haha, only saw your add a minute ago. Even sent you a message cos I'm such a nice Intergalactic Overlord

[vorax]

Thanks for the input Delphine. Looking forward to working through it.

[tehLORD]

Yeah, just group the two together depending on your daw app. Works well if you have got bass and kick around the same level and bass has a bit of attack to it, just so the peaks register a little and the dynamics are kind of glued together.

I don't use compression over the master though.

It's such an obvious thing to do really? Doh.

I've toyed with compression on the master but never really felt the need to, saying that somethimes i'll use a limiter to boost everything up a few db so I'm talking bollocks really.

haha, only saw your add a minute ago. Even sent you a message cos I'm such a nice Intergalactic Overlord

Good, friends on myspace make me feel important