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  1. #21
    Cockroaches & Keith Richards
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilmags
    From what you describe your own playing as a small diaphramme instrument condesor mic, (I use a Shure SM81 as a close mic and gigging mic, Vim Fuego has a cheaper, but still damm fine version of the same, so ask him about it)
    hah, no he hasn't, Bloody large marine animal music cocked up the order from start to finish. I ended up canceling the whole order as I wouldn't give them the stream off my piss. Am just checking out availability of various parts from other places.
    None of you seem to understand; I'm not locked in here with you, you'll all locked in here with me.

  2. #22
    The comeback tour
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilmags
    (But you have to hear my new Valve Mic. Wow. Simply Wow.
    No, I haven't, but I would like to!

    Thing is though, I tend to find different mics are better for different applications... and when it coems to vocals, different mics work better with different singers, hence why the Behrigner I have works better for me despite the AT mic being "better" than the Behrginer.

    Horses for courses and all that!

    I would really like to try a decent Ribbon mic though....

  3. #23
    Cockroaches & Keith Richards
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    OK updated with all of those (I hope).

    We've got requests there for help with Audacity (overview) and Cubase (drum maps/parts) so if anyone can pitch in . . .
    Red ones are better.

  4. #24
    Cockroaches & Keith Richards
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    As this thread will hopefully become sticky, and as old stuff occasionally gets pruned from the forum I'll quote Goji's excellent compression summary here from this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gojirosan
    Well...

    There are no hard and fast rules (as ever!) and compression is a weird thing. You have to use your ears and often if it sounds like it's not doing anything, then it's working just fine!

    Compression is one of those things that goes in and out of favour and varies from musical style to musical style. All you can do is imagine what you want your end result to sound like and progrress from there. Glossy and radio friendly with no surprise dynamics? Then plenty of compression and limiting. High fidelity, realistic and with a whopping dynamic range? Then little or no compression.

    Compressors really have to be learnt, and this involves a combination of study and farting about! I have gotten to the stage where I have an idea in my head about the compression I want and can dial it in and require little fiddling to achieve what I want. But it has taken years of using hardware and software compression and falling in and out of love with it! Using and analysing presets in compression plug-ins is a great help in tuning your ear, as it removes "blank page blindness" of starting from scratch.

    The main controls on compressors can be (and almost always are!) extremely confusing. Threshold is the easist to understand and the hardest to use! But it sets a level below which the signal is unaffected and above which the compression kicks in. Finding the right threshold spot can make or break transparency in my experience and modern computer recording has helped a lot with its level meters and visual waveforms. But sometimes it pays to turn off the monitor and just listen really, really intently to the signal first. Threshold obviously affects how much compression gets onto your sounds and effects the sound itself, so experimentation is the way!

    Ratio being the amount of compression actually applied when the compression comes on is self-explanatory, but can be tricky to apply. If you want an audible or pumping compression for an effect then you will over apply this control! But mostly you just have to aply the least you can get away with. A loose (very loose!) guideline is:

    Drums - 4:1
    Bass - 6:1
    Guitars - 6:1
    Vocals - 2:1
    Limiting - infinity:1

    Now, these are but starting points, and you will often find that you end up using ratios a fair bit above or below these guides! I will usually use a higher ratio on vocals and bass as I like these instruments pretty damned compressed! However, if I use any individual compression on electric guitar at all, chances are that I will go for a lower ratio! My personal tastes and always thought out with a mind towards the final mix and how these things are going to fit together. Also drums can be treated as a kit and given a general compression, but I'll usually compress each drum and cymbal individually (or not at all) first. I dislike most natural kick drum sounds, so will almost always compress the Hell out of a kick until it sounds like an 808!

    Limiting is strictly an infinity:1 process, but you may well get the control you want over a vocal or bass track with just a high compression rating (say 8:1 through to 14:1). Controlling peaks is difficult, but you don't always have to go at it with a sledgehammer!

    Attack and release seem comparatively subtle to the overall sound compared to threshold and ratio, but need care anyway. When do you want the compressor to come in? How rapidly does it need to recover - how close are the sounds, do you want it to audibly pump or do you want natural recovery? Think about the nature of the signal and the type of instrument. Then try to reflect the envelope of the sound with complimentary attack and release settings. Again, studying presets really helps here.

    Samples and loops come in all kinds of forms some pretreated and effected others naked and dry. It usually says in the notes of commercial material, but you can usually tell anyway. The best way may be to leave them until you have a bit of a mix together. It's far easier to hear if something needs compression when it is fighting for its place than in isolation having been recorded by skilled people with top-end transparent kit!

    Guitars are funny. The guitarist may well have a compressor pedal in his chain to begin with, any overdrive, distortion or fuzz adds compression and the low tech valve circuits used to amplify most guitars are also introducing a dollop of compression. You may well need to apply compression to acoustic guitars before they hit "tape". Think of acoustic guitars more like vocals than electric guitars in this case! They cover a relatively huge frequency range, through out peaks, and drift up and down in level. Electric guitars are less like this, and you can usually recod them and forget compression until you can hear the mix. Then come the nightmare of geting mid-hogging electric guitars to fit! :lol: It is personal again. I tend not to apply much compression to miked-up-amped or amp-modelled electrics, unless it really cries out for it or it is a sparkling clean Nile Rodgers-esque type sound that needs to be level and smooth. Then they get smothered! Remember, however, that I am not a fan of very prominent electric guitars in mixes. I prefer guitars to sit in the background a bit. For instrumental guitar soloing type stuff, you may well find you need much more compression than I'd ever use.

    The best way to work out compression amounts is with the mix, as I've said, but this isn't always possible. You may need to apply compression earlier on in the recording process. Which leads us to my fave compression maxim: It is better to apply several stages of mild compression than one application of heavy compression. This leaves many more options open. Consider the process of recording and where compression may be applied, with, say a vocal line:

    Singer sings into the microphone.
    The signal will usually be uneven and may have dangerous peaks, so you add compression to tame it before "tape".
    Recording continues and the vocal is getting swamped and muddy in the mix: another bit of compression.
    Once the backing vocals and vocals effects are added the lead vocal(s) are getting lost and confused again. More compression.
    The final mix is compressed, thus more compression.
    The mastering runs the entire track through a limiter - more compression (of a sort!).

    That is just an illustration from the top of my head: five stages of compression on the lead vocals alone! You may find yourself using fewer stages, or even more! It you had applied too much compression inthe first couple of stages you could ruin the entire vocal line. So you have to constantly think and listen and, I'm afraid, think ahead! Multi-band compressors can be a Godsend here, as application of compression to the specific frequency bands that need it can stop too much of it mounting up and knackering the sound.

    Right. I am in danger of rambling now, so I shall leave it there. I hope it's been of some value!
    Red ones are better.

  5. #25
    The rehab years
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    Quote Originally Posted by solar
    I'll volunteer for Garageband - I'm not an expert but I should be able to help out beginners at least.
    same here
    All the streets are crammed with things, eager to be held. I know what hands are for
    and I'd like to help myself...

  6. #26
    The rehab years
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    Ooooh Oooooh i want to play too

    I'm a Tascam multitrack recorder fan. Can't be doing with PC systems, too many menus and such like for me. I like to / need to keep it as simple as possible otherwise I get frustrated and bored. ops:

    I got a good mic though, Behringer B2Pro running through a Behringer Mic200 pre amp. But I've been told that a good mic through a crap cable ain't worth sh*t, so I'll be needing to splash out on some quality cable soon. Any recommendations :?:
    [url=www.airbag-music.co.uk]AirBag - That little ol' band from Shropshire[/url]
    [url=www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7220222622] Facebook group: "we love AirBag" [/url]
    [url=http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=501133]This is me[/url]

  7. #27
    X Factor hopeful
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    Sonar

  8. #28
    The comeback tour
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilbert
    Another Cubase user.

    I can import an audio backing track, jam over it, bounce down to mp3 and................ well, that's about it really so file me under "enthusistic amateur" ops:

    Can someone please show/tell/demo anything how I can lay down a drum track ??. And loop and.......... and .......... and......... get the picture :wink:

    dilbert
    Right here goes.

    First thing i do is select the tempo or the track (adjustable at any time)

    Go to track 10 (make sure it's midi-track 10 because it's standard to use 10 for drums) and create a working space.

    Now on the left, there should be an option for GM drum map, you will want it on.

    Next you need to choose a MIDI instrument to make noises when the sound is triggered. For a simple drum kit and not bad sound. Press F11 and go down to the second box and select LM7 under drums (or LM9 i can't remember)

    Next go back to track 10 and make sure it's highlighted, then change the output to the LM7/9 kit.

    Now when you go into it, it should look different to a normal note input page. And should have drum names down the side (note: not all of these drums will work as the kit is small and only features about 10 drums). Then it's a matter of grabbing the drumstick tool an drawing the beat in.

    LISTEN to other types of music and work out how the drummer is playing it. Remember the limits a drummer has (i.e just two arms and two legs-well most anyway)


    I've got a very informative tutorial on how to make drums sound real if you want it, just PM your email address. It was written by someone on this forum.

    Any more help needed? Just ask...(point it out via PM though as ill doubt ill view this thread that often)

    Tim
    Quote Originally Posted by bertie
    watch it Chemo boy

  9. #29
    The ill-advised world music album
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    I stumbled at the first hurdle on that one. ops:

    How do i know when track 10 is a MIDI track or not?

    ...and i cant see any GM gubbins about.
    [quote=jason morris]
    Maybe - but Holnrew is the motherfucker, and that's what counts.[/quote]

  10. #30
    The comeback tour
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    Right Sam,

    what version are you using, if it's MIDI, next to where it says 'TRack 10' it will have a little MIDI calble plug symbol thingy. Or if not just go Project>add tracks>midi.

    The gm gubbins will show when track 10 is highlighted...on the left control panel.
    Quote Originally Posted by bertie
    watch it Chemo boy

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