Valves: Can you try them out?

[ecc83]

Re the Distance Trading Regulations.

If a person buys a set of expensive replacement valves ( let's KISS and keep to pre amp valves), tries them in his amp and they do not appear to give the highly vaunted claimed "super, shimmering Cleans. Low down dirty growling overdrives" and other similar sonic (bllx IMHO) results, can they just pop them back in their boxes and ship them back for a full refund as you could for say an amp or pedal?

I ask because a valve IS a component, that cannot be argued against and once "used" the seller might claim that it cannot then be re sold as new. I do not agree that they should be able to wriggle thus but would they? Do they?

If a few people did this and especially followed the same procedure with high priced leads maybe, just maybe some of the more extravagent claims would be curtailed?

Dave.

[Emperor Fabulous]

Dunno, but I would like to be able to try out different valves for a fee with the option of returning them. Say, a 15% restocking fee. Imagine being able to buy a smorgasbord of valves, kind of like a posh restaurant's taster menu, but with the ability to return the once you don't like.

[ICBM]

Re the Distance Trading Regulations.

If a person buys a set of expensive replacement valves ( let's KISS and keep to pre amp valves), tries them in his amp and they do not appear to give the highly vaunted claimed "super, shimmering Cleans. Low down dirty growling overdrives" and other similar sonic (bllx IMHO) results, can they just pop them back in their boxes and ship them back for a full refund as you could for say an amp or pedal?

I ask because a valve IS a component, that cannot be argued against and once "used" the seller might claim that it cannot then be re sold as new. I do not agree that they should be able to wriggle thus but would they? Do they?

There are some well-known valve dealers who get very snippy (at best) about giving refunds even when the valves are faulty, so I doubt they'd take too kindly to them being returned just because you didn't like them.

I also suspect that a good many dealers (including some of those alluded to above) have no problem re-selling a used valve as "new" if there is no visible sign it has been used. (eg bear-trap clip marks on resin bases.) How can you tell, anyway? There is no practical difference between a burn-in test and a few hours of use.

In any case, under the DSRs you don't even have to provide a reason - so I'm not sure how the sellers stand on this already. Or if anyone has tried to take them to task on it.

Dunno, but I would like to be able to try out different valves for a fee with the option of returning them. Say, a 15% restocking fee. Imagine being able to buy a smorgasbord of valves, kind of like a posh restaurant's taster menu, but with the ability to return the once you don't like.

There is. You buy "used, tested" valves on Ebay, and re-sell the ones you don't like.

[jpfamps]

I can't see any valve seller being happy with this, even those that make extravagent claims.

Part of the problem being that the margins on valves for most sellers is pretty slim; an invetiable consequence of the punter wanting to pay less is that the service rhey receive is sometimes less that they would like.

Regardless, I expect that most of the claims about the magical sonic properties of any compnents, would be hard to prove and thus are twaddle.

To be honest the hi-fi industry is a far worse offender than the musical instument industry, so I really can't lose any sleep over this.

[ecc83]

I can't see any valve seller being happy with this, even those that make extravagent claims.

Part of the problem being that the margins on valves for most sellers is pretty slim; an invetiable consequence of the punter wanting to pay less is that the service rhey receive is sometimes less that they would like.

Regardless, I expect that most of the claims about the magical sonic properties of any compnents, would be hard to prove and thus are twaddle.

To be honest the hi-fi industry is a far worse offender than the musical instument industry, so I really can't lose any sleep over this.

Oh I totally agree! The thought just came, unbidden, probably because if sellers of valves and cables are going to promote their wares more as fashion accessories rather than simply components, AND charge accordingly, they should be treated as such by the buyer?
Might, just might curtail some of the outlandish and unsupportable sonic claims?

What you DO with a double triode makes vastly more difference to the sound than the brand, assumimg everything meets original spec'.

Dave.

[Sporky_McGuffin]

I ask because a valve IS a component, that cannot be argued against and once "used" the seller might claim that it cannot then be re sold as new. I do not agree that they should be able to wriggle thus but would they? Do they?

The ability to resell the goods as new doesn't apply under the DSRs; however, the aim is to enable consumers to inspect the goods as they would in a shop. I'm not sure (though this is obviously open to debate) that a "valve shop" would let you bring your amp in and try the valves out with it, so I'm not sure that the DSRs would protect you on this one.

What might be more sensible would be for a valve emporium to have a demo stock, where you put down some sort of deposit (well, a monetary sort, I suppose) and then get a selection to try. When you return them you get some/most/all of your deposit back, possibly with a discount on buying a fresh set of valves of the sort in the demo box.

If they've been falsely described, though, you can return them anyway I'd have thought.

[MrMenturm]

It's an interesting discussion, because we all often look at the range of valves out there, and find ourselves wondering whether it really is worth it, am I going to hear a difference, am I wasting my money, etc...

Is there something in the DSR's that says that "components" cannot be returned within a grace period, or have I got muddled up?

It seems to me that valve dealers need to get off their high horse with this. I can buy a pedal (lets KISS and say Blackstar ) WITH a valve in it, try it out, and send it back within 7 days if it sucks. The law provides me that opportunity.

Why SHOULD it be any different for valves??

[Sporky_McGuffin]

Because the DSRs are there to afford you the same opportunity to inspect goods as you'd have in a shop - and I don't think most consumers (or shop owners) would expect that you'd be able to turn up at a shop with your amp and pop some of their valve stock in to try 'em out.

That's what it hinges on. With a pedal you would reasonably expect to be able to try it in the shop.

[ecc83]

Because the DSRs are there to afford you the same opportunity to inspect goods as you'd have in a shop - and I don't think most consumers (or shop owners) would expect that you'd be able to turn up at a shop with your amp and pop some of their valve stock in to try 'em out.

That's what it hinges on. With a pedal you would reasonably expect to be able to try it in the shop.

Yup, got that Mac' but so long as people are advertising valves as an IMPROVEMENT in some way over the "standard" product (whatever that is today!) the punter is surely entitled to try them out, as they would indeed a pedal?

As for lugging your amp in and having a set fitted, why not? If a vendor has complete confidence in their claims they could offer a re-valve service, fit a "top bllx" set, re bias where appropriate and let the punter try it. If he is not convinced, whip out the stuff polished on virgins' thighs and fit a bog standard set. Punter pays pro rata.

Dave.

[MrMenturm]

Because the DSRs are there to afford you the same opportunity to inspect goods as you'd have in a shop - and I don't think most consumers (or shop owners) would expect that you'd be able to turn up at a shop with your amp and pop some of their valve stock in to try 'em out.

That's what it hinges on. With a pedal you would reasonably expect to be able to try it in the shop.

If a shop stocks something, you can ask to try it out, no?

It's tricky. You couldn't seriously expect to go into a shop and try out a banana, but you can go into a pub and ask to try an ale before buying the full pint.

You couldn't seriously go into a shop and ask to try out a pair of strings, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to with valves.