Some recent thoughts about learning the basics.

[frankus]

My youngest is gaining more and more words atm and it's interesting to note the clarity of the later words is that much better than the earliest words: "fwower" versus "magazine" or more interestingly "bussy" versus "bus-stop" - so even words with the same root words, there are different pronunciations. The earlier the word was used the weaker it's pronunciation.

It got me thinking. How is it that the basics aren't dragged up to spec automatically? Do many of us revisit techniques again and again to refine them with our latest learning?

In martial arts, we learn strikes and moves and for each level we revisit the previous movements - when I watch the blackbelts performing the same sequence I am meant to know I notice subtle differences - sometimes it's only when I've practiced a move hundreds of times that I can perform a move in a way that will ever be useful in sparring.

So, what are the basics of guitar, so that I can revisit them and see if anything drops out of the mix

[DaveMcK]

I suppose we might learn something "incorrectly" but it still get's the job done so we don't bother trying to "fix" it until there comes a time that we need too or for what ever reason choose to. This time might never come.

Then again if that time never comes it might not have been incorrect.
.

[BlindLemonAde]

As I watch people "learn," I notice that if they make a mistake early on, ie a wrong finger placement on a C chord, and I correct them, they will still make the same error, then fix it themselves (if they remember!). Eventually, they omit the error and do it right straight away. This may take 10-15 minutes, or may persist for weeks.

It's as though the brain has a recording of the initial erroneous action, which it replays every time, until it is over-written with the new, correct action. I still have two mental programs for travis-picking patterns, the "wrong" one, and the "correct" one - I have to think which one to recall, every time I want to use it.

So, what I watch out for from Day 1 with new pupils, is finger placement on open chords - getting the pad of the finger close to the fret, getting the fingertip orthogonal (?) to the fretboard, and with scale shapes, one-finger-per-fret with good finger positioning.

Also, pick holding, strumming action, and posture - seems old-fashoned, but I'm convinced you can't learn to play well, while slumping all over the place. If they get the physical aspects of playing off to a good start, it makes all the memory-work that follows a great deal easier.

[frankus]

I suppose we might learn something "incorrectly" but it still get's the job done so we don't bother trying to "fix" it until there comes a time that we need too or for what ever reason choose to. This time might never come.

Then again if that time never comes it might not have been incorrect.

I spent a while chewing this over. I've not mentioned "fix" or "incorrectly", I see it being a refining process, providing more options. As I enjoy the process, I don't require reward. I believe I'll only gain real insight by doing and observing.

When I read your post, the questions are very similar to the doubts that used to unconsciously demotivate me: "what ifs", seemingly advocating inaction and justified by apprehensions.

[limbicsystem]

As I enjoy the process, I don't require reward..

Isn't enjoyment the reward?

So, what are the basics of guitar

Good question. Posture, hand position, minimum movement principal, the major scale, pick angle.

Not a very good answer but your question has got me thinking, lol

[frankus]

Isn't enjoyment the reward?

A very good point. I'm probably not appreciating my contentment enough

Good question. Posture, hand position, minimum movement principal, the major scale, pick angle.

Not a very good answer but your question has got me thinking, lol

I agree with the ones you've given already, so I'd be interested if you find some more. Of those the only one I'd say I've not reassessed to some depth in the last decade was "hand position"

[frankus]

As I watch people "learn," I notice that if they make a mistake early on, ie a wrong finger placement on a C chord, and I correct them, they will still make the same error, then fix it themselves (if they remember!). Eventually, they omit the error and do it right straight away. This may take 10-15 minutes, or may persist for weeks.

I'm examining the pace at which I learn, I've identified I've an insecurity about learning that means I'm making extra efforts which detract and can distract from any learning.

It's as though the brain has a recording of the initial erroneous action, which it replays every time, until it is over-written with the new, correct action. I still have two mental programs for travis-picking patterns, the "wrong" one, and the "correct" one - I have to think which one to recall, every time I want to use it.

Justin Sandercoe used to tell me that it took 20 perfect practices to erase the wrong one, what I'm observing in myself is there needs to be recognition of the mistake in order for a personal imperitive to exist - which makes learning so much easier and quicker, if I'm not convinced somethings wrong, I don't unlearn it.

So, what I watch out for from Day 1 with new pupils, is finger placement on open chords - getting the pad of the finger close to the fret, getting the fingertip orthogonal (?) to the fretboard, and with scale shapes, one-finger-per-fret with good finger positioning.

I agree with that, I suspect you don't mean orthoganal, did you mean something geometric instead? my bad it can be used to mean perpendicular too - to begin with it reminded me of Justin's removing "finger-locks": the idea that in certain positions, certain notes are only played by a particular.

Also, pick holding, strumming action, and posture - seems old-fashoned, but I'm convinced you can't learn to play well, while slumping all over the place. If they get the physical aspects of playing off to a good start, it makes all the memory-work that follows a great deal easier.

Posture affects blood flow, so I can well believe good posture helps learning. I've been a slouch most of my life.

[DaveMcK]

I spent a while chewing this over. I've not mentioned "fix" or "incorrectly", I see it being a refining process, providing more options. As I enjoy the process, I don't require reward. I believe I'll only gain real insight by doing and observing.

When I read your post, the questions are very similar to the doubts that used to unconsciously demotivate me: "what ifs", seemingly advocating inaction and justified by apprehensions.

Well I'm sorry you have taken it this way Frank.

There weren't any questions in my post.

When you were talking about "weaker pronunciation" I assumed you meant "incorrect" pronunciation although I highlighted the word to show I was using it loosely, I appreciate
there may be more than one way to pronounce a certain word. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

All I meant was that IMO people are unlikely to change something that works for them. They are more likely to change if they realise it is holding them back.
On a more philosophical view point, however, you could say that there isn't a "correct" way to live therefore nobody is "wrong"...perhaps maybe only the person that thinks they are "right".

I agree with enjoying, doing and observing.

[frankus]

Well I'm sorry you have taken it this way Frank.

Don't be, it's my interpretation and I hoped the second paragraph emphasized that was where I felt the responsibility lay. Your post was thought provoking because of my preconceptions it was indigestible to begin with.

There weren't any questions in my post.

Quite right, but it seems to be asking "is it worth me looking for flaws in my playing?"

When you were talking about "weaker pronunciation" I assumed you meant "incorrect" pronunciation although I highlighted the word to show I was using it loosely, I appreciate there may be more than one way to pronounce a certain word. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

The ambiguity is exactly the thing I notice with my youngest's pronunciation: bed, bad, bug are all the same sound and in a lot of situations the context is unambiguous or accompanied with pointing - but sometimes there's not enough there to know, only enough to assume.

Weaker might have crept in as in thinking about all this I was reminded of the John Coltrane comment "I guess I'm always looking to strengthen my roots"..

All I meant was that IMO people are unlikely to change something that works for them. They are more likely to change if they realise it is holding them back.

I'd totally agree with that, homeostasis is what keeps us breathing, affects our posture, operates so much of our body, it's vital to our existence, so it's alien to believe it's smothering us in other ways, in getting rid of bad habits and addictions we have to fight the body's homeostasis and reclaim actions from autonomy - it's always bloody difficult, but doable.

On a more philosophical view point, however, you could say that there isn't a "correct" way to live therefore nobody is "wrong"...perhaps maybe only the person that thinks they are "right".

..and the funny thing with that thought is the implicit judgement in it - that judging people is wrong - right and wrong exist (to my mind) only as reassurance for actions - as with many artificial things they have a use and abuse - if we believe we're right, it allows for the fear we might be wrong, which will rob us of the reassurance.. at the end of it all (to me) reassurance only exists to permit us to do - which as a philosophy is a work in progress

I agree with enjoying, doing and observing.

In my experience there's nothing simpler.

[DaveMcK]

..and the funny thing with that thought is the implicit judgement in it - that judging people is wrong

Doesn't actually say that. It is only "implicit" from a certain point of view.